Ben Shapiro family is growing

[-Sarah-]

This video is already a relic. I have never heard of trainwreckstv but Sargon did not like being put on the same side with Nick Fuentes, who really does fit in 'alt right'; Sargon is now voluntarily almost completely off YouTube so he doesn't have to censor himself and Fuentes is almost universally deplatformed. Sargon's ins and outs in this debate are mesmerizing to me. He knows he has far more in common from a policy pov with Hasan and Destiny (who I think is NeFi that hides his PolR well?) than with Fuentes, but they don't know it and he knows they don't. And he also knows what they are missing is the long view--the primordial to infinity view which is just about the only thing Fuentes has going for him but will never be able to articulate in a way they can hear---and Sargon has 'all the time in the world' to wait and crouch and spring it on them. And he succeeds. He actually manages to bring the whole thing to a standstill and get everyone to shut up and think for half a minute.

I also think the facilitator on the left, Asmongold, is TiNe (though at first I thought NeTi creative) and Sargon manages to supervise him all along so that he understands what's happening way before everyone else does. I'm having trouble with Nick Fuentes' ct; he is veryyoung, much younger than he seems, and also with the facilitator on the right so far.

I finished the first hour of the debate. I haven't watched the other Nick Fuentes videos or read the rest of thread after the Nick videos. (Re: the points highlighted in red) - Hasan and Destiny grossly misinterpreted and over-extrapolated Sargon's points, even though as you said, they're more similar policy wise than Sargon and Nick. I was initially under the impression that Hasan and Destiny refused to see Sargon's POV since they're on the left and Sargon is more on the right, that there's this ideological investment (insistence) that they're fundamentally correct and Sargon (and Nick) are wrong and that no common ground is remotely possible. There's something very Manichean about this. But I agree with your point about them not intrinsically knowing that they have more common and that there's a difference, probably even a chasm, between Sargon and Nick.

From my experience with Delta extroverts, they can cover a lot of ground but at the end of the day it doesn't feel substantial (enough). With NeFi (like Destiny) especially as they lean into their Te and Si, can rapid fire spit a lot of facts and be excellent rhetoricians but there's nothing fundamentally connecting them together (which Roshan mentions about Destiny's Ti polr, him lacking first-principles fundamentals). His use of T in general feels opportunistic. Even when NeFi has well-developed Te, I don't necessarily get the same cohesion that I get from TeSi and TeNi who's Ti is not clipped (even if it's not necessarily valued). Since I'm Ne polr, I can feel bamboozled by NeFi's Te since I expect the Ni connective tissue (along with shadow Ti first-principles foundations) that carries the Te. That's not to say that NeFis don't provide something valuable for me, but when NeFi overextends their Te, I instinctively feel that something is missing, that something is not adding up.

Nick seems Ti inferior to me. He tries so hard to Ti but he lacks the precision. He throws around philosophy terms like 'a priori' and 'teleological' but he uses them incorrectly and conflates them with other concepts (a priori with common sense and teleology with naturalism, or his conception of naturalism). He defers to Asmongold to better articulate his points.

Speaking of Asmongold, I thought he was an excellent facilitator and moderator. He was able to fairly and succinctly articulate everyone's (especially Nick's) points.

I don't have a read on Trainweck.

Tbcd.

[Vincent]

Nick seems Ti inferior to me. He tries so hard to Ti but he lacks the precision. He throws around philosophy terms like 'a priori' and 'teleological' but he uses them incorrectly and conflates them with other concepts (a priori with common sense and teleology with naturalism, or his conception of naturalism). He defers to Asmongold to better articulate his points.

Well, he is certainly Ti inferior, but his use of those philosophical terms is not even that wrong here.
Destiny jumps on him like a grammar nazi would jump on an incorrect use of "your" vs "you're", with all the undeserved authority of an Ne dom. But Nick isn't fundamentally wrong here.

"A priori" is kantian terminology. And common sense is indeed part of it.
And there is indeed a direct link between (his brand of) naturalism and teleology, via the concept of organism.

His Ti inferior is more in his inability to defend himself, which also has something to do with jumping over Ni and losing Se.

Anyway, i didn't watch Nick's speech yet.
I'll do that tonight and i'll catch up with this thread soon.

[Roshan]

The above post for me is a huge snore. zzzzz



But this is in large part because I agree wholeheartedly that if one were to give Nick the benefit of the doubt, it makes more than enough sense to say a priori is something like common sense to at least let it slide for him to just finish making his damn point.

At the same time I get that -Sarah- is saying that he, Nick, in and of himself, was specifically seeking Ti, formalized Ti, while not quite grasping it.

But the jumping down his throat about it and stifling him for it I found really sophomoric and repugnant. And also to be one more flashy example of delta extravert pyrotechnics that is just adding fuel to an actual real fire.

[Roshan]

If they took it seriously that Nick and his Groypers were burning enough to really burn something down, they would not act like this when he said a priori. But they don't. They're incapable of taking him or anyone any more seriously than they take themselves.

[Roshan]

Or should I say they're axiomatically incapable of taking anyone or anything more seriously than they ultimately take themselves?

Or would that be...um...tautological or...something?

[Anthony]

He is so creepy

[Anthony]

And he gets even creepier here...

“If I look around and my friends’ wives are hotter than mine...I just can’t live with that, I’ll kill myself”

[Roshan]

hmmm...I haven't watched yet but before I even looked at the second post I was going to write that I believe Nick Fuentes is a saodmasochist.

He's also the alt right counterflow Brad Stand.

[Anthony]

In that last video, he also states "I will not chase a woman. It's a pride thing. I'm Nick Fuentes, I have important shit going on, and you expect ME to chase a woman???"

If I were to further rephrase this, he might as well have said "Until my desired image is mirrored back to me completely via external feedback, I'm not going to take ANY new risks"
3 @ low 6 cowardice and @ low 9 sloth

OR...he's just gay, or a pedo, or a gay pedo, and may not enjoy adult female company.

Much of the time you really can't take anything he says very seriously, because as Destiny had said "Nick Fuentes is constantly lying" or whatever. But in these two videos, I feel like I pick up on his actual sentiments, and his vulnerable spots, as he's continually exposing them accidentally. There are times when he really seems like he wants to kill somebody and is doing everything to suppress the urge. At this point, if someone wanted to, it would not be particularly difficult to drive him completely insane. He IS constantly lying, clearly, and you really shouldn't take seriously much of what he says, but within that lying there seems to be a certain desperate honesty that seeps through...

[Anthony]

He's also the alt right counterflow Brad Stand.

Wow, yes.