Ben Shapiro family is growing

[Roshan]

Asmongold has posted a sticky video on his YouTube account five days ago that his mother died.

[Roshan]

Zack Rawrr?

[Vincent]

BUT something tells me if I understood this-- there is indeed a direct link between (his brand of) naturalism and teleology, via the concept of organism--my life would change.

Let me guess: Kant said something about how Si gives a boundary and without it we would know the forms if only we would still exist?

Yes, that's spot on Roshan

And in a way, pretty much everything Kant said is ultimately about that.
Boundaries and membranes, and how they fundamentally limit and define our experience.

And the thing is, as whacky as he is, Nick certainly got some of that.
He was just instantly punished by the postmodern deltas for reminding them about human nature.
They had to shoot the Si polr canary in the coal mine.

[Roshan]

They had to shoot the Si polr canary in the coal mine.

Riiiiight...that bird.

Well, he holds some highly objectionable beliefs so people think give him an inch....but that is exactly the wrong way to proceed imo. No sane person is going to adopt those beliefs but a Groyper (or even a Nick) may eventually abandon them if you open up the space. The "problem" is to do that you have to concede the kernel of truth (there is almost always a kernel and please note the kernel is not the whole seed), and/or the causes of those beliefs (in which 'you and yours' may have been complicit). Then there are those ideas he has which seem highly objectionable--but what if they're not? This is frightening, so the goal becomes to topple the adversary's house of cards so he can't topple yours. But dissolving a bit of both is a better strategy than toppling.

People need to understand that when you drink something you don't have to eat the glass.

Speaking of dissolution and membranes...god I hope I'm not a Kantian. Do I have to read him if I am? He's soooo boring...

[Roshan]

Well, as a member of Chews for Cheesus, I still have to find excuses to devil's advocate for these people in the culcha wars.

For instance:

"That woman finds Asmongold wearing a pink bow in his hair every bit as strange as he finds her worship of a snack food crucifix."

How's that for devil's advocacy? Huh?

[Roshan]

Does everybody agree with me that this is an example of supervision gone very, very wrong and also that it highlights core differences and points of friction between gamma and delta?

How so? Or if you think one or both of the types are wrong, why?

[-Sarah-]

I'm rewatching the Train vs Destiny video and I'll post my response later on today. When I first watched it, I had a strong reaction towards it and watching it again, I still do.

[Roshan]

I had a very strong reaction to it too, -Sarah-. To say that Train and I have a similar outlook and gripe about the interplay of social and individual dynamics, what matters ultimately in it, and the role hypocrisy plays can only be understated. At the same time we seem to suffer from a reverse problem with 'debating'--his mouth freezes and mine floods--but in either case it makes us far less good at it than people with 'opportunistic Fi' and controlled Se. I'll hold back on saying more til other people talk, though.

[-Sarah-]

That video was frustrating to watch. Throughout the video I thought Destiny was being disingenuous and was trying to get one over Train. Even his attempts to clarify Train’s position was part of the “gotcha” and Train immediately saw through that. I did want to give Destiny the benefit of the doubt and I wanted to see pass my own Ne polr bias by thinking that maybe Destiny genuinely thought that Train was over-generalizing and he was trying to properly situate his position, and Train reflexively and viscerally experiences Ne as manipulative and so he might’ve mistaken Destiny’s clarification for manipulation and twisting his words but I just could not give him the benefit of the doubt.

While I do think that Train could’ve articulated his position better and his lack of verbal eloquence is something I share with him, I ultimately agreed with the substance of his points. If you’re a woman on Twitch that makes sexually suggestive content and that’s your main bread and butter, it’s hypocritical to call your male viewers sexist for saying explicit comments towards you and them expecting you to deliver salacious content. Of course that doesn’t mean you should accept harassment and genuinely misogynistic behavior, which no one in the stream condones. In an ideal world (i.e. one that’ll never exist), men would be totally respectful and angelic in the midst of a woman sexually teasing them and whose main attraction is her sex appeal, but that’s not how reality works. But we’re also in a post-#MeToo climate and engaging in this type of rhetoric gives one clout. This whole situation goes further into my criticism of third-wave feminism in its current iteration but that’s for another time.

Overall, I found Destiny’s talk about optics and responsibility to be full of BS. It seems like the only optics he’s concerned about is looking good. He knows he’s better at Te than Train (Train is also looking for someone with higher Te to better articulate his points) and along with his Ne frame, he comes off as superficially more balanced and eloquent than Train. He seems like the reasonable one, but he only puts forth the aesthetic of reason. Him saying Train’s refusal to name people who accused others of sexism is the same as his example of him refusing to name male streamers (who are the 1% of streamers of course) who are raping women was ridiculous and uncalled for. They are nowhere near equivalent to each other! But I think he was also trying to evoke the fact that the women in both of these situations get hurt the most??? If so, that was extremely clumsy and irresponsible.

Even though Train admitted that the situation he explained happens to be in the minority, he still understands that not calling out the hypocrisy and the potential serious consequences of these actions sets up a bad precedent. What starts off as happening to a small group of people could easily escalate into something larger and Destiny seems to dismiss this fact, partly because he doesn’t ultimately perceive it to be a serious problem and he seems to have also bought into the rhetoric of #BelieveWomen (no matter what). It goes against the current Leftist machine to not do so. I find it fitting that this thread and Roshan's Rittenhouse trial posts are running concurrently since they both have to do with the Typology(Delta ideological imperialism)-Leftist matrix. Train is legitimately reacting against that machine and the hypocrisy it leaves space for while Destiny remains short-sighted in upholding that machine (and I’m saying all this as a fellow leftist).

[Roshan]

That video was frustrating to watch. Throughout the video I thought Destiny was being disingenuous and was trying to get one over Train. Even his attempts to clarify Train’s position was part of the “gotcha” and Train immediately saw through that. I did want to give Destiny the benefit of the doubt and I wanted to see pass my own Ne polr bias by thinking that maybe Destiny genuinely thought that Train was over-generalizing and he was trying to properly situate his position, and Train reflexively and viscerally experiences Ne as manipulative and so he might’ve mistaken Destiny’s clarification for manipulation and twisting his words but I just could not give him the benefit of the doubt.

Well, I don't know that it's either/or, -Sarah-. I think Destiny does this instinctively, it's in his DNA, and I really don't think he's aware he's doing it. He seems drawn like a moth to a flame to Ne 'flag planting. Well, perhaps I should say like a compass to a pole, and if he and Train are on the same expedition, he'll just breezily supervise away, gliding easily through swift, satisfactory explanations of Train's grunts on his dog sled. The problem is when the pole lies elsewhere for Destiny; no flag was planted unless the public knew, and so Destiny is an E3 TrEnd radar. This is all to be popular but the problem (as I see it) is Destiny doesn't even know it. Destiny's Fi isn't just opportunistic to others; it's opportunistic to himself. If it weren't, it wouldn't be Fi.

And so I'm not so sure the question is whether he's 'disingenuous'; I'm not sure that's the right word because it seems to imply conscious, calculated intent. Actually just yesterday I was looking to see (for another context) whether I could find a better word for this and no luck.

While I do think that Train could’ve articulated his position better

No, he couldn't have, Sarah. Certainly not in that moment, on camera, and much less with an ever more opportunistic interlocutor. He couldn't, but someone else could have. And that someone is supposed to be Destiny, which is at the crux of what's going on here. It's also what makes this abysmally failed supervision and what makes it a betrayal for Train (which further seals his doom because the more Destiny betrays, the more inarticulate Train becomes).