Ben Shapiro family is growing

[-Sarah-]

That video was frustrating to watch. Throughout the video I thought Destiny was being disingenuous and was trying to get one over Train. Even his attempts to clarify Train’s position was part of the “gotcha” and Train immediately saw through that. I did want to give Destiny the benefit of the doubt and I wanted to see pass my own Ne polr bias by thinking that maybe Destiny genuinely thought that Train was over-generalizing and he was trying to properly situate his position, and Train reflexively and viscerally experiences Ne as manipulative and so he might’ve mistaken Destiny’s clarification for manipulation and twisting his words but I just could not give him the benefit of the doubt.

Well, I don't know that it's either/or, -Sarah-. I think Destiny does this instinctively, it's in his DNA, and I really don't think he's aware he's doing it. He seems drawn like a moth to a flame to Ne 'flag planting. Well, perhaps I should say like a compass to a pole, and if he and Train are on the same expedition, he'll just breezily supervise away, gliding easily through swift, satisfactory explanations of Train's grunts on his dog sled. The problem is when north lies elsewhere for Destiny; no flag was planted unless the public knew, and so Destiny is an E3 TrEnd radar. This is all to be popular but the problem (as I see it) is Destiny doesn't even know it. Destiny's Fi isn't just opportunistic to others; it's opportunistic to himself. If it weren't, it wouldn't be Fi.

And so I'm not so sure the question is whether he's 'disingenuous'; I'm not sure that's the right word because it seems to imply conscious, calculated intent. Actually just yesterday I was looking to see (for another context) whether I could find a better word for this and no luck.

While I do think that Train could’ve articulated his position better

No, he couldn't have, Sarah. Certainly not in that moment, on camera, and much less with an ever more opportunistic interlocutor. He couldn't, but someone else could have. And that someone is supposed to be Destiny, which is at the crux of what's going on here. It's also what makes this abysmally failed supervision and what makes it a betrayal for Train (which further seals his doom because the more Destiny betrays, the more inarticulate Train becomes.

This makes a lot of sense (I did deleted my post after you wrote this one, not the long one, but the one I wrote after the one you wrote since I wanted to redo it). I also think I reacted the way I did towards that video because it felt like I was also experiencing that betrayal along with Train.

[Roshan]

Everyone should be having some kind of strong reaction here -Sarah-, because a seminal quadra issue of modernity is being exposed.

Delta qua Delta cannot be truly individualistic. What Destiny is defending here is tyranny of the majority. There is something oxymoronic even in such well-known phrases as "the universal rights of man" or of "the child", even as they warm the cockles of our do-gooder hearts.

So since a Delta evolution to Alpha axiomatically implies devolution (Delpha being last and Alpha being first), Delta can only be invigorated by ensuring there is also a volution to gamma when on the..um...train it's on.

Otherwise, it's usually beta that has the pitchforks because as I said in the context of Matriarch Rose, there authority is routinely and legitimately toppled by prowess of brute force. And so...

the more slippery Delta/Ne Destiny gets, the more beta Train gets, bludgeoning him over the head with sheer, unadulterated Fi-fueled Se. It's the only way he can win.

[Vincent]

Everyone should be having some kind of strong reaction here -Sarah-, because a seminal quadra issue of modernity is being exposed.

Well, this video was very upsetting to me.
In a jaw-clenching, then fist-clenching way.

One thing that strikes me is that i feel like Train actually made his point very well, early on, even if he is unable to articulate it.
"i just don't like that they get to sit there and destroy anyone they want".
That's quite an Ni (and Fi) bomb and Destiny completely ignored it the whole time.

I mean, in another world, people would just shut up, stop playing for a minute and let it sink before they even demand better articulation and try to supervise.

It also strikes me that Destiny interrupts Train and starts speaking right after Train said "that's Twitch meta".
The thing is meta, in gamer slang, is a pretty loaded term.
It's both a pun on the greek prefix for beyond/behind, and an acronym for Most Efficient Tactic Available.
It refers to what the community currently and collectively thinks is the optimal way to play a game, which usually becomes the only accepted way to play it in "elite groups".
And that's what Destiny cant/doesn't want to see : the game behind the twitch game.

It echoes what i was saying earlier about NeFis always staying in the middle of a problem, and refusing to move backward or forward. They just won't "go meta" to stay shallow and to keep ignoring Ni and avoiding Ti.

Destiny's failure to help Train with Ne is utterly and painfully obvious to me the whole time.
Pretty much every question Destiny asks is actually a Si one.
He demands stats, numbers, figures, names, examples.
And every reframing he proposes borders on a strawman.

Destiny's absolute failure to supervise feels pretty abusive to me.
I mean, i get that Destiny probably feels caught between his loyalty toward his "last friend", his perceived duty toward his audience on his own channel and his subconscious terror of the twitch meta.
But he isn't the one whose hands are tied here. Train is. And that's Gamma.

tbcd.

[Roshan]

btw the chat behavior Train's complaining about calls to mind my slogan for the new new Left. I used it on social media from time to time before newer things eclipsed it like Bubonic Plague Lite, Social Justice Arsonists, and The Great January 6 Insurrection. (Also btw this video seems to be just before lockdown).

WE ARE THE LIBERTINE PURITANS. REPENT! REPENT!

Like I said, to say Train and I are very similar here is an understatement.

[Vincent]

I wonder what would have happened if Train's hands weren't tied.
If he had been able to come up with many names and big numbers.

I'm not sure it would have ultimately changed anything.
Destiny probably would have moved the goal post (and as Roshan said, the compass) in another direction.

I've seen Delta extraverts go full blown cynical and quote uncle Joe when countered on their Si questions.
"Well, you know, the death of one man Is a tragedy, the death of 10 000 is a StatIstic".

After all, they are "no names" already for Destiny.

What Destiny doesn't seem or want to remember is that every "name" started by being a "no name".
And obviously, if those "no names" get destroyed, even if it's one at a time and by the hands of 1% of the population they never get a chance to become "names".
Deltas are supposed to know that. Non devoluted ones usually do.

tbcd.

[Roshan]

It also strikes me that Destiny interrupts Train and starts speaking right after Train said "that's Twitch meta".
The thing is meta, in gamer slang, is a pretty loaded term.
It's both a pun on the greek prefix for beyond/behind, and an acronym for Most Efficient Tactic Available.
It refers to what the community currently and collectively thinks is the optimal way to play a game, which usually becomes the only accepted way to play it in "elite groups".
And that's what Destiny cant/doesn't want to see : the game behind the twitch game.

It echoes what i was saying earlier about NeFis always staying in the middle of a problem, and refusing to move backward or forward.

They just won't "go meta" to stay shallow and to keep ignoring Ni and avoiding Ti.

Right, tho that was in the context of my 'two Ti's'; move back was to first principles and move forward was to more complex web spinning. But yes, it's also intent to ignore Ni because Ni works with Ti. But do you mean they won't go or they just go meta Vincent? I understand the context but am I missing the application of 'meta'?

Destiny's failure to help Train with Ne is utterly and painfully obvious to me the whole time.
Pretty much every question Destiny asks is actually a Si one.
He demands stats, numbers, figures, names, examples.

Maybe. But as we've discussed (a while back in context of JP ct), 'data' is specifically Te>>Ti. And Te is a bigger problem for Train than Si.

And every reframing he proposes borders on a strawman.

Destiny's absolute failure to supervise feels pretty abusive to me.
I mean, i get that Destiny probably feels caught between his loyalty toward his "last friend", his perceived duty toward his audience on his own channel and his subconscious terror of the twitch meta.
But he isn't the one whose hands are tied here. Train is. And that's Gamma.

Well, what Destiny wants is to be a prince among the Lost Boys and still not lose his bestest friend Wendy. He Peter Pan eyelash bats with seductive suggestions of fun flights to come in Never Never Land. He doesn't want his wings clipped and he's Fe demonstrative so pals must fly too.

tbcd.

[Roshan]

Which is also a core difference between gamma and delta btw. Broadly speaking, gamma will leave and burn it all down rather than give up on a principle. Delta will accommodate.

Of course there are exceptions, and SiTe is Fe polr while SeFi is Fe demo etc...but overall Delta is a trend seeker, setter, implementer, and adherent to 'the group'.

To...the group meta, is it?

[Roshan]

hmmm...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagamin ... ing_games)



Vincent

[Vincent]

Right, tho that was in the context of my 'two Ti's'; move back was to first principles and move forward was to more complex web spinning. But yes, it's also intent to ignore Ni because Ni works with Ti. But do you mean they won't go or they just go meta Vincent? I understand the context but am I missing the application of 'meta'?

Well, i was meaning the former.
They won't "go meta" in that sense that they won't go behind and beyond in debates.
They will keep moving the goal post but only to keep things at surface level without ever going deeper.

But you're right. They will also just follow the group M.E.T.A and play the game as prescribed by the normative elite.

Maybe. But as we've discussed (a while back in context of JP ct), 'data' is specifically Te>>Ti. And Te is a bigger problem for Train than Si.

Oh yes, i absolutely agree with that.
But it also felt very unfair to me that Destiny is asking him for familiar names and specific stories, while he knows perfectly well that Train can't give them, even if he has them.

(post crossed, reading up)

[Vincent]

Which is also a core difference between gamma and delta btw. Broadly speaking, gamma will leave and burn it all down rather than give up on a principle. Delta will accommodate.

Of course there are exceptions, and SiTe is Fe polr while SeFi is Fe demo etc...but overall Delta is a trend seeker, setter, implementer, and adherent to 'the group'.

To...the group meta, is it?

Yes, they definitely are.
And as you pointed out, they usually don't even know that they do.
I absolutely agree with that.

Sorry i was unclear.