(Ends when video goes black around 5 mins)
Type 7 Gluttony
Re: Type 7 Gluttony
7 Gluttony between 5 Avarice (isolation, nihilism) and 1 Righteous Wrath (at imperfection)
Re: Type 7 Gluttony
With basic fear Deprivation, when confronting loss, Gluttony wants more candy rather than face the nihilistic void of Avarice at its core or the extent of the righteous Wrath at imperfection at its stress point.
But here Avarice starts to be faced.
But here Avarice starts to be faced.
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-Sarah-
- Posts: 249
- Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:07 pm
- Location: American South
- Enneagram Core: 2w1
- Cognitive Type: FiSe
Re: Type 7 Gluttony
PART 1
Gluttony (7) moving between Avarice (5) and Wrath (1)
Sylvia Plath is a very interesting case in that she illustrates the darker and heavier ways gluttony can manifest and she is often mistyped as a core 4 (with sp/sx). During the enneatude days, Roshan had a thread on Plath where she ended up typing her as a core 7. Similar to Emily Dickinson, Sylvia Plath often writes about death, which on the surface could be easily confused for Type 4’s Holy Origin - from whence we’ve come from, to whence we return to, death is the thing that gives way to birth and the fate that we are inevitably fated to. But in reading her poems, some of her journal entries, and a portion of The Bell Jar, her depression and preoccupation with death doesn’t stem from interiorized shame or primarily from envy (though it’s not totally unpresent) but rather a frustration with the lack of freedom she experiences in life (especially as a woman in the time period she lived during).
I’ve gotten the impression from her that death was both an escape from and an exploration of the nihilism of life and stifling nature of the time period she loved through. Like fours, sevens can also be emotional gluttons through the intensification of their own emotions and life experiences, but the intensification here is a means to side-step the anxiety and dread of experiencing the meaninglessness and ennui of reality. In the interview above, she primarily talks about the different topics and influences that fascinate her and even in the exploration of her own inner experience, it’s always tied in with how much she can extract from the world around her. Behind the emotional exploration of her poetry there’s an intellectual discipline that backbones it (5 and 1 sobriety). It’s a primarily mental orientation towards the emotional (heart) realm.
13:30: Interviewer - Writing poetry has been a great satisfaction in your life.
13:43 - to the end: Sylvia Plath - Oh, satisfaction! Yes I don't think I could live without it. It's like you know water or bread or something absolutely essential to me. I find myself absolutely fulfilled when I have written upon when I'm writing one having written one well then you fall away very rapidly from having been a poet to becoming a sort of poet in rest which isn't the same thing at all but I think the actual experience of writing a poem is a magnificent one.
This interview was conducted 3 months before she tragically committed suicide. Roshan has stated in the past, that 4 and 7 involve a nostalgia towards childhood. Four is stuck in the past, while seven wants to recapture the magic of childhood long into adulthood. As Plath aged, the loss of that magic and innocence gave way to ultimate privation, a glimpse into the void.
- 8985a9d896ac4fcc7135f1ab95e67cbb.jpg (46 KiB) Viewed 3167 times
Sylvia Plath is a very interesting case in that she illustrates the darker and heavier ways gluttony can manifest and she is often mistyped as a core 4 (with sp/sx). During the enneatude days, Roshan had a thread on Plath where she ended up typing her as a core 7. Similar to Emily Dickinson, Sylvia Plath often writes about death, which on the surface could be easily confused for Type 4’s Holy Origin - from whence we’ve come from, to whence we return to, death is the thing that gives way to birth and the fate that we are inevitably fated to. But in reading her poems, some of her journal entries, and a portion of The Bell Jar, her depression and preoccupation with death doesn’t stem from interiorized shame or primarily from envy (though it’s not totally unpresent) but rather a frustration with the lack of freedom she experiences in life (especially as a woman in the time period she lived during).
I’ve gotten the impression from her that death was both an escape from and an exploration of the nihilism of life and stifling nature of the time period she loved through. Like fours, sevens can also be emotional gluttons through the intensification of their own emotions and life experiences, but the intensification here is a means to side-step the anxiety and dread of experiencing the meaninglessness and ennui of reality. In the interview above, she primarily talks about the different topics and influences that fascinate her and even in the exploration of her own inner experience, it’s always tied in with how much she can extract from the world around her. Behind the emotional exploration of her poetry there’s an intellectual discipline that backbones it (5 and 1 sobriety). It’s a primarily mental orientation towards the emotional (heart) realm.
13:30: Interviewer - Writing poetry has been a great satisfaction in your life.
13:43 - to the end: Sylvia Plath - Oh, satisfaction! Yes I don't think I could live without it. It's like you know water or bread or something absolutely essential to me. I find myself absolutely fulfilled when I have written upon when I'm writing one having written one well then you fall away very rapidly from having been a poet to becoming a sort of poet in rest which isn't the same thing at all but I think the actual experience of writing a poem is a magnificent one.
This interview was conducted 3 months before she tragically committed suicide. Roshan has stated in the past, that 4 and 7 involve a nostalgia towards childhood. Four is stuck in the past, while seven wants to recapture the magic of childhood long into adulthood. As Plath aged, the loss of that magic and innocence gave way to ultimate privation, a glimpse into the void.
Last edited by -Sarah- on Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I really like things I don't understand: when I read a thing I don't understand I feel a sweet and abysmal vertigo. - Clarice Lispector, Água Viva
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-Sarah-
- Posts: 249
- Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:07 pm
- Location: American South
- Enneagram Core: 2w1
- Cognitive Type: FiSe
Re: Type 7 Gluttony
PART 1
Holy Work/Plan (7) between Holy Omniscience (5) and Holy Perfection (1)
Italian director Federico Fellini describes his experience with LSD which is framed as being present with reality, experiencing it in a more objective way, through non-participation and detachment from the object. Rather than gluttonously chasing different possibilities or circulating around different aspects of reality, he’s present with it as it is, without imposing meaning on it, and through that, he’s experiencing a fuller spectrum of and deeper involvement with life.
Nonetheless, the experience of LSD is still fueled by gluttony in that the drug helps you access different layers of reality, though in the end, this layering collapses into a cohesive and holistic experience of reality. You see the different interweaving of reality and the fantastical in Fellini’s films, particularly the ones post La Dolce Vita (1960). There’s even a term for his particular style, Felliniesque - he’s noted for his fantastical, carnivalesque, magical way of storytelling, one that borders on magical realism.
His style of storytelling doesn’t necessarily obfuscate the reality of the situations and events presented in the films but rather highlights the absurdity of the events depicted or in a way that defamiliarizes common and mundane experiences and sentiments in a way we can experience them in a richer way.
(The fascist rally scene in Amarcord (19730))
Holy Work/Plan (7) between Holy Omniscience (5) and Holy Perfection (1)
Italian director Federico Fellini describes his experience with LSD which is framed as being present with reality, experiencing it in a more objective way, through non-participation and detachment from the object. Rather than gluttonously chasing different possibilities or circulating around different aspects of reality, he’s present with it as it is, without imposing meaning on it, and through that, he’s experiencing a fuller spectrum of and deeper involvement with life.
Nonetheless, the experience of LSD is still fueled by gluttony in that the drug helps you access different layers of reality, though in the end, this layering collapses into a cohesive and holistic experience of reality. You see the different interweaving of reality and the fantastical in Fellini’s films, particularly the ones post La Dolce Vita (1960). There’s even a term for his particular style, Felliniesque - he’s noted for his fantastical, carnivalesque, magical way of storytelling, one that borders on magical realism.
His style of storytelling doesn’t necessarily obfuscate the reality of the situations and events presented in the films but rather highlights the absurdity of the events depicted or in a way that defamiliarizes common and mundane experiences and sentiments in a way we can experience them in a richer way.
(The fascist rally scene in Amarcord (19730))
Last edited by admin on Mon Sep 04, 2023 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
I really like things I don't understand: when I read a thing I don't understand I feel a sweet and abysmal vertigo. - Clarice Lispector, Água Viva
-
-Sarah-
- Posts: 249
- Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:07 pm
- Location: American South
- Enneagram Core: 2w1
- Cognitive Type: FiSe
Re: Type 7 Gluttony
This is embarrassing. I misread the directions of the project.
"you already know the priority is for the month, not the week, and it's the types and movement of points as per the songs and film clips This coincides with beginning of semester and in one case tests from end of semester, and with other issues and events."
https://www.terra9incognita.net/viewtop ... 3637#p3637
"you already know the priority is for the month, not the week, and it's the types and movement of points as per the songs and film clips This coincides with beginning of semester and in one case tests from end of semester, and with other issues and events."
https://www.terra9incognita.net/viewtop ... 3637#p3637
I really like things I don't understand: when I read a thing I don't understand I feel a sweet and abysmal vertigo. - Clarice Lispector, Água Viva
-
-Sarah-
- Posts: 249
- Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:07 pm
- Location: American South
- Enneagram Core: 2w1
- Cognitive Type: FiSe
Re: Type 7 Gluttony
I'll make another post related to the songs.
I really like things I don't understand: when I read a thing I don't understand I feel a sweet and abysmal vertigo. - Clarice Lispector, Água Viva
-
-Sarah-
- Posts: 249
- Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:07 pm
- Location: American South
- Enneagram Core: 2w1
- Cognitive Type: FiSe
Re: Type 7 Gluttony
Part 2
Killers - Read My Mind
“With basic fear Deprivation, when confronting loss, Gluttony wants more candy rather than face the nihilistic void of Avarice at its core or the extent of the righteous Wrath at imperfection at its stress point.” - Roshan
I find that with 7 and with the positive-reframing triad in general, there’s a fixation around plenitude, whether it’s a plentitude that they can provide to others (2), something that they seek out in the world (7), or something they try to preserve and maintain within their environment (9). Whether the world is full of possibilities and things to experience or there’s a chasm that must be filled with some sort of presence, the passion for 7 and by extension for the rest of the positive-reframing triad is one of exchange and taking and giving with their environment, a process that originates from the feeling of or fear of lack, though this lack is not one they consciously experience. Twos subconsciously anticipate rejection from others and run on pride, an excess of self-regard, in order to make themselves indispensable to others. Nines inherently feel disconnected from Holy Love so they fall asleep to the things that disrupt their harmony in a way that simultaneously siphons their own energy and parasitically feeds on others’ energies. Sevens are afraid of their own interiority and the potential emptiness that it poses so they gluttonously throw themselves and indulge in the fruits that the world provides.
With gluttony moving between avarice and wrath, it's a means for the 7 to always run ahead of the avarice, The Big Empty/Void. Confrontation with the Void highlights not just the imperfection of the world, but the inherent meaninglessness of it. The void is the logical conclusion of being, a suspension of being (or ‘liminal space’) where meaning collapses and the anticipation of a new horizon dies. It’s also here where wrath has no purpose because inherent in wrath is the hope and vision that things can and should improve, that there’s a horizon in the distance. But within the infinitude of the Void, where does wrath take us? Where can it go? If it can’t push forward and outward, it moves inward and cannibalizes the self in a way that eats at the structures of one’s own sense of knowing and perception.
For both the video and the lyrics of The Killer’s “Read My Mind” gluttony attempts to outpace avarice. Beyond the threshold, there’s always the promise of a Promise Land beyond the horizon. All is well, "I don't mind, you don't mind. Cause I don't shine if you don't shine.” But is it really? “Can you read my mind?” keeps being repeated throughout the song. Underneath the optimism, there’s an anxiety around the legitimacy and permanence around this promise. It’s almost like he’s asking us if we can see what he’s seeing, questioning if there’s actually something over the horizon.
Avarice in the 7 manifests as a refusal to fall too deep into their own interiority or in a way that stifles their movement. They will gluttonously sample the pleasures of the world but never quite stick to one thing for too long so they end up not getting acquainted with it in a deep way, and why should they? Because in doing that, they’re missing out on a whole slew of experiences. The 7 wants to experience more, to know more, and to see more. If the 5 focuses, specializes, distills, and deconstructs in order to uncover the fundamental code of the universe, then the 7 expands, samples, widens, and synthesizes everything around them in order to understand the different dimensions of the universe. But even in the immersion, there’s always going to be a level of detachment, from both their own inner experience and from the object of their fascination.
Killers - Read My Mind
“With basic fear Deprivation, when confronting loss, Gluttony wants more candy rather than face the nihilistic void of Avarice at its core or the extent of the righteous Wrath at imperfection at its stress point.” - Roshan
I find that with 7 and with the positive-reframing triad in general, there’s a fixation around plenitude, whether it’s a plentitude that they can provide to others (2), something that they seek out in the world (7), or something they try to preserve and maintain within their environment (9). Whether the world is full of possibilities and things to experience or there’s a chasm that must be filled with some sort of presence, the passion for 7 and by extension for the rest of the positive-reframing triad is one of exchange and taking and giving with their environment, a process that originates from the feeling of or fear of lack, though this lack is not one they consciously experience. Twos subconsciously anticipate rejection from others and run on pride, an excess of self-regard, in order to make themselves indispensable to others. Nines inherently feel disconnected from Holy Love so they fall asleep to the things that disrupt their harmony in a way that simultaneously siphons their own energy and parasitically feeds on others’ energies. Sevens are afraid of their own interiority and the potential emptiness that it poses so they gluttonously throw themselves and indulge in the fruits that the world provides.
With gluttony moving between avarice and wrath, it's a means for the 7 to always run ahead of the avarice, The Big Empty/Void. Confrontation with the Void highlights not just the imperfection of the world, but the inherent meaninglessness of it. The void is the logical conclusion of being, a suspension of being (or ‘liminal space’) where meaning collapses and the anticipation of a new horizon dies. It’s also here where wrath has no purpose because inherent in wrath is the hope and vision that things can and should improve, that there’s a horizon in the distance. But within the infinitude of the Void, where does wrath take us? Where can it go? If it can’t push forward and outward, it moves inward and cannibalizes the self in a way that eats at the structures of one’s own sense of knowing and perception.
For both the video and the lyrics of The Killer’s “Read My Mind” gluttony attempts to outpace avarice. Beyond the threshold, there’s always the promise of a Promise Land beyond the horizon. All is well, "I don't mind, you don't mind. Cause I don't shine if you don't shine.” But is it really? “Can you read my mind?” keeps being repeated throughout the song. Underneath the optimism, there’s an anxiety around the legitimacy and permanence around this promise. It’s almost like he’s asking us if we can see what he’s seeing, questioning if there’s actually something over the horizon.
Avarice in the 7 manifests as a refusal to fall too deep into their own interiority or in a way that stifles their movement. They will gluttonously sample the pleasures of the world but never quite stick to one thing for too long so they end up not getting acquainted with it in a deep way, and why should they? Because in doing that, they’re missing out on a whole slew of experiences. The 7 wants to experience more, to know more, and to see more. If the 5 focuses, specializes, distills, and deconstructs in order to uncover the fundamental code of the universe, then the 7 expands, samples, widens, and synthesizes everything around them in order to understand the different dimensions of the universe. But even in the immersion, there’s always going to be a level of detachment, from both their own inner experience and from the object of their fascination.
On the corner of Main Street
Just tryna keep it in line
You say you wanna move on and
You say I'm fallin' behind
Can you read my mind?
Can you read my mind?
I never really gave up on
Breakin' out of this two-star town
I got the green light, I got a little fight
I'm gonna turn this thing around
Can you read my mind?
Can you read my mind?
The good old days, the honest man
The restless heart, the Promised Land
A subtle kiss that no one sees
A broken wrist and a big trapeze
Oh well, I don't mind if you don't mind
'Cause I don't shine if you don't shine
Before you go
Can you read my mind?
It's funny how you just break down
Waitin' on some sign
I pull up to the front of your driveway
With magic soakin' my spine
Can you read my mind?
Can you read my mind?
The teenage queen, the loaded gun
The drop dead dream, the Chosen One
A southern drawl, a world unseen
A city wall and a trampoline
Oh well, I don't mind if you don't mind
'Cause I don't shine if you don't shine
Before you jump
Tell me what you find
Can you read my mind?
Slippin' in my faith until I fall
He never returned that call
Woman, open the door, don't let it sting
I wanna breathe that fire again
She said, "I don't mind, you don't mind
'Cause I don't shine if you don't shine"
Put your back on me, put your back on me
Put your back on me
The stars are blazing like rebel diamonds
Cut out of the sun
Can you read my mind?
Last edited by admin on Mon Sep 04, 2023 6:44 am, edited 4 times in total.
I really like things I don't understand: when I read a thing I don't understand I feel a sweet and abysmal vertigo. - Clarice Lispector, Água Viva
-
-Sarah-
- Posts: 249
- Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:07 pm
- Location: American South
- Enneagram Core: 2w1
- Cognitive Type: FiSe
Re: Type 7 Gluttony
Part 3
Florence + the Machine - Ship to Wreck
Here gluttony violently ping-pongs between avarice and wrath. Between lashing out at her lover and self-critically asking herself how she ruined the relationship, the illusion of having an idyllic relationship is shattered. Having lost her compass in knowing where everything is going, the tragedy lies in her desperate attempt to re-establish that compass while falling deeper into nihilism and self-destruction.
The main question of the song is, “Did I build a ship to wreck?” Was the ship, symbolizing their relationship, built on an unstable foundation? Does she build something just to destroy it in the end? The lesson of type 7’s holy idea of Holy Plan/Work is embracing the full dimension of life, in all its highs and lows, with a focused concentration and temperance. Gluttony dissipates our attention and awareness, and rather than leading us on a path towards progress, it ultimately has us repeat the same actions over and over in order to recreate and maintain the novelty. But where does it lead us to in the end? Endless repetition, no matter how interesting and new it seems, always leads us back to the same spot. The repetition tries to keep the nihilism at bay but it inevitably keeps replicating and propagating it. The more this feeling of nihilism comes to the surface, the more intense the frustration starts to feel. The more that things start to feel wrong and imperfect.
The destruction of the ship not only represents a fall into nihilism but what leads to its destruction is the critical resentment that starts to eat away at the foundation of the ship. Once you notice a hole in the ship, you start to notice other holes present within the ship, and in a miasma of frustration and disappointment, end up creating more holes to further contribute to the sinking of the ship and escape is impossible.
Florence + the Machine - Ship to Wreck
Here gluttony violently ping-pongs between avarice and wrath. Between lashing out at her lover and self-critically asking herself how she ruined the relationship, the illusion of having an idyllic relationship is shattered. Having lost her compass in knowing where everything is going, the tragedy lies in her desperate attempt to re-establish that compass while falling deeper into nihilism and self-destruction.
The main question of the song is, “Did I build a ship to wreck?” Was the ship, symbolizing their relationship, built on an unstable foundation? Does she build something just to destroy it in the end? The lesson of type 7’s holy idea of Holy Plan/Work is embracing the full dimension of life, in all its highs and lows, with a focused concentration and temperance. Gluttony dissipates our attention and awareness, and rather than leading us on a path towards progress, it ultimately has us repeat the same actions over and over in order to recreate and maintain the novelty. But where does it lead us to in the end? Endless repetition, no matter how interesting and new it seems, always leads us back to the same spot. The repetition tries to keep the nihilism at bay but it inevitably keeps replicating and propagating it. The more this feeling of nihilism comes to the surface, the more intense the frustration starts to feel. The more that things start to feel wrong and imperfect.
The destruction of the ship not only represents a fall into nihilism but what leads to its destruction is the critical resentment that starts to eat away at the foundation of the ship. Once you notice a hole in the ship, you start to notice other holes present within the ship, and in a miasma of frustration and disappointment, end up creating more holes to further contribute to the sinking of the ship and escape is impossible.
Don't touch the sleeping pills, they mess with my head
Dredging of great white sharks, swimming in the bed
And here comes a killer whale, to sing me to sleep
Thrashing the covers off, has me by its teeth
And, ah, my love remind me, what was it that I said?
I can't help but pull the earth around me to make my bed
And, ah, my love remind me, what was it that I did?
Did I drink too much? Am I losing touch?
Did I build a ship to wreck?
To wreck, to wreck, to wreck
Did I build this ship to wreck?
What's with the long face? Do you want more?
Thousands of red-eyed mice, scratching at the door
And don't let the curtain catch you, cause you've been here before
The chair is an island, darling, you can't touch the floor
And, ah, my love remind me, what was it that I said?
I can't help but pull the earth around me to make my bed
And, ah, my love remind me, what was it that I did?
Did I drink too much? Am I losing touch?
Did I build a ship to wreck?
To wreck, to wreck, to wreck
Did I build this ship to wreck?
Good God, under starless skies
We are lost, and into the breach, we got tossed
And the water is coming in fast
And, ah, my love remind me, what was it that I said?
I can't help but pull the earth around me to make my bed
And, ah, my love remind me, what was it that I did?
Did I drink too much? Am I losing touch?
Did I build a ship to wreck?
To wreck, to wreck, to wreck
Did I build this ship to wreck?
To wreck, to wreck, to wreck
Did I build this ship to wreck?
Last edited by admin on Mon Sep 04, 2023 6:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
I really like things I don't understand: when I read a thing I don't understand I feel a sweet and abysmal vertigo. - Clarice Lispector, Água Viva