My trajectory with this:
I didn't know anything about him except that he was a prominent Panther but I got curious when in this video at 22' Chris Hedges said he 'ultimately destroyed the Black Panthers' like Bernadine Dohrn destroyed the SDS (Students for a Democratic Society). So I went to wiki and first I saw that photo, which I found very compelling.
It wasn't really possible for me to just type from the photo since I knew who he was and what Hedges had said but I felt very strongly he was a 6w5 lead with 4 and either sp/SX or SX/so, with a slight preference for sp/SX. Gutwise, my strong impression was 'not 9' but I preferred 8 > 1 so my guess was sp/SX 6w5-4wX-8w9, probably 4w5 (basing on Malcolm X) and probably 7 subwing on the 8.
Then I grazed over the article briefly and the detail that he taught himself to read (presumably this is somewhat hyperbolic) with Plato's Republic and got a PhD later in social philosophy really moved me to One. Then I started watching a younger video and the 4 impression changed to a 4-heavy 3 and a (5w4) sw on the 6; I very seriously considered triple attached with the 9 all the way in 8.
Then I watched a more recent video and my impression of [sp/sx] solidified so much so that I thought he was midstream sp/sx, not sp/SX decadent, and the gut went back to One, so it was now sp/sx 6w55w4-3w4x-1wX.Then we saw the votes and there was a long discussion in the chat and by the end I had the One second all the way in Two and the 3 last all the way in Four.
Now I am quite flustered by this Buckley interaction; he is so alternately ingratiating and menacing and his energy and speech are so uncentered and splayed, that I am very seriously back to considering triple attached--and not only with sp/SX but maybe sp last, even dark social so/SX. However he clearly has mental health issues, so idk and idk about the gut either. Like he seems too uncentered to be 8 fixed but...
It's just really hard balancing out all the different people he's been and the health levels (which certainly at times seems to have been L8) with the type.If 6 and 3 are both AT low 9, e.g., and he's dissociative and hanging on by a thread to his chaotic chattering mind in the Buckley interview, could he not 'need' a 9 fix to come off this way? still be sp first? Shrug.
Sigh. This is all very disturbing.
Gram the Grown Up #2 Mystery Man
Re: Gram the Grown Up #2
Last edited by Roshan on Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Gram the Grown Up #2
Tritype 368 Prize Fighter
Tritype 369 Eye of the Hurricane (Gotta Keep Spinnin')
Tritype 136 Getting It Right
368 is like Muhammad Ali ('I am the Greatest'). Huey Newton seems way too ingratiating and self-effacing too often for this. Now granted a 1 all the way in 9 (or 2) can show up un-Oneishly but he seems so turbulent yet empty at the core in, say, that Buckley interview. Fizzling like a firecracker stick. (Also bringing to mind so/SX yet he is also SO...inhuman...when menacing). Again, how much would 'just' health level factor in to affect impression of type? Then he changed so much when older, seems hardened and brittle like melted wax from a candle that burned too fast...energetically overall I am very inclined to keep him in the counterflow and attribute the extreme 'splayed energy' with Buckley to his being unhinged rather than '[so/sx] firecracker'. But still, sp FIRST in the absence of triple attached feels like a particularly hard sell...particularly if the 6 is 'all the way in 5'...that's some pretty bouncy sp-covered Avarice iykwim...
Tritype 369 Eye of the Hurricane (Gotta Keep Spinnin')
Tritype 136 Getting It Right
368 is like Muhammad Ali ('I am the Greatest'). Huey Newton seems way too ingratiating and self-effacing too often for this. Now granted a 1 all the way in 9 (or 2) can show up un-Oneishly but he seems so turbulent yet empty at the core in, say, that Buckley interview. Fizzling like a firecracker stick. (Also bringing to mind so/SX yet he is also SO...inhuman...when menacing). Again, how much would 'just' health level factor in to affect impression of type? Then he changed so much when older, seems hardened and brittle like melted wax from a candle that burned too fast...energetically overall I am very inclined to keep him in the counterflow and attribute the extreme 'splayed energy' with Buckley to his being unhinged rather than '[so/sx] firecracker'. But still, sp FIRST in the absence of triple attached feels like a particularly hard sell...particularly if the 6 is 'all the way in 5'...that's some pretty bouncy sp-covered Avarice iykwim...
Last edited by Roshan on Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:41 am, edited 4 times in total.
Re: Gram the Grown Up #2
Audio interview about "Revolutionary Suicide".
Last edited by Roshan on Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Gram the Grown Up #2
In the Buckley interview, when Newton says he agrees with him about revolution and Buckley asks which part, Newton says a humane revolution that succeeds. But it was Newton who said 'humane' and Buckley who said one that 'succeeds'. Newton seems merged with Buckley. It is really hard not to see him as triple attached here. And not sp first.
atm I'm thinking [sx/so] 6w5x-3wX-9w88w9.
atm I'm thinking [sx/so] 6w5x-3wX-9w88w9.
Last edited by Roshan on Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Gram the Grown Up #2
It's very very hard not to see him as 9-fixed with this Buckley interview. Despite that he doesn't seem to be acting the way he usually does, he has it in him, and it was sustained too. This being the case it makes figuring out his stacking problematic, because there are many famous triple attached and almost all are mistyped, so we don't really know how the stackings work with triple attached. I don't know if he could sustain an sp/SX stacking and be THAT merged.
But I will say that offhand the photo in the thumbnail of the last video posted seems very sx first. Still and all, it's hard to square that with how he turned out later on, whatever the reasons were he turned out that way.
But I will say that offhand the photo in the thumbnail of the last video posted seems very sx first. Still and all, it's hard to square that with how he turned out later on, whatever the reasons were he turned out that way.
Last edited by Roshan on Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Gram the Grown Up #2
How did I miss this?
Sorry, it's really, really hard to see any sp first making such a fetish out of dying--at least in the absence of a 4 fix. Which isn't necessarily the case. He should be sx first and/or have 4 sight unseen, just based on the titles of his two books.
Sorry, it's really, really hard to see any sp first making such a fetish out of dying--at least in the absence of a 4 fix. Which isn't necessarily the case. He should be sx first and/or have 4 sight unseen, just based on the titles of his two books.
Last edited by Roshan on Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Gram the Grown Up #2
UNLESS
it's sp/SX with the 9 second, so sx 9 Union.
To die for the people and for William F. Buckley Jr.
it's sp/SX with the 9 second, so sx 9 Union.
To die for the people and for William F. Buckley Jr.
Re: Gram the Grown Up #2
This appears to be a beta v. delta conflict.
Newton thought he was getting an ISFJ supervisor but he got an ISTJ creative conflictor, or less likely (atm imo) ESTJ creative extreme superego clash. But I don't think Buckley's Si is relative; he is a genuine patrician traditionalist. And I don't think Buckley's problems understanding Newton (tbc I'm still rewatching just the first half, haven't finished the whole thing but the clash is bad) have to do with his being unable to collapse Newton's ideas (Ni PolR) but rather with a clash of values.
These values are S and F; I think they are first and third row.
For Buckley S is based on collective tradition (Si) and F is based on individual integrity (Fi); for Newton S is based on individual StrEngth and F is collective ultimately. So bad leaders get thrown to the wolves and that's that.
And by around 15' that's what he's trying to do to Buckley. He's steamrolling him with his Se third to overthrow him because Buckley would not (could not) hear him. And Buckley is genuinely perturbed by this. But if they were superegos I think the Te debate would be going a lot better than it is.
Buckley's old school conservativism doesn't seem to allow him to grasp Newton's argument about the threat of collective force on a ruler being its own kind of democracy. This is because, as patrician and feudal-ish as he is, he's still delta, and on top of it seems to be getting pretty Se ignoring here. Newton scares him.
And Newton won this round when he told him in so many words, you HAVE to be nice to me to protect your reputation as a host, I'm the guest. This was a huge Fe manipulation and I guess it hit Buckley's PolR, though possibly usurped his role.
Newton thought he was getting an ISFJ supervisor but he got an ISTJ creative conflictor, or less likely (atm imo) ESTJ creative extreme superego clash. But I don't think Buckley's Si is relative; he is a genuine patrician traditionalist. And I don't think Buckley's problems understanding Newton (tbc I'm still rewatching just the first half, haven't finished the whole thing but the clash is bad) have to do with his being unable to collapse Newton's ideas (Ni PolR) but rather with a clash of values.
These values are S and F; I think they are first and third row.
For Buckley S is based on collective tradition (Si) and F is based on individual integrity (Fi); for Newton S is based on individual StrEngth and F is collective ultimately. So bad leaders get thrown to the wolves and that's that.
And by around 15' that's what he's trying to do to Buckley. He's steamrolling him with his Se third to overthrow him because Buckley would not (could not) hear him. And Buckley is genuinely perturbed by this. But if they were superegos I think the Te debate would be going a lot better than it is.
Buckley's old school conservativism doesn't seem to allow him to grasp Newton's argument about the threat of collective force on a ruler being its own kind of democracy. This is because, as patrician and feudal-ish as he is, he's still delta, and on top of it seems to be getting pretty Se ignoring here. Newton scares him.
And Newton won this round when he told him in so many words, you HAVE to be nice to me to protect your reputation as a host, I'm the guest. This was a huge Fe manipulation and I guess it hit Buckley's PolR, though possibly usurped his role.
Last edited by Roshan on Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:34 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Re: Gram the Grown Up #2
@3'44" "I'm not a leader, I'm an organizer. I'm not a speaker either. I'm terrified of cameras, radios and large groups. I only pretend I'm not. That's why I'm so beligerent with you, and forceful and aggressive. That's to hide my fear".
Last edited by Roshan on Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Gram the Grown Up #2
No, wait.
Toward the end of this, I'm thinking they're actually contraries and this Plato business when he 'taught himself to read' was SeTi in SiTe shadow.
I didn't think he could be Se frame because he was swaying and shifting all over the place and digressing so much, but ultimately he's so lumbering and powerful...and in the end he's happy as a clam with Buckley and is still talking to him non-stop after the show's over. He found him 'entertaining'.
Toward the end of this, I'm thinking they're actually contraries and this Plato business when he 'taught himself to read' was SeTi in SiTe shadow.
I didn't think he could be Se frame because he was swaying and shifting all over the place and digressing so much, but ultimately he's so lumbering and powerful...and in the end he's happy as a clam with Buckley and is still talking to him non-stop after the show's over. He found him 'entertaining'.
Last edited by Roshan on Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.