Gram the Grown Up #7 Curtis Yarvin

[Anthony]

I think I confused Fi PoLR with social last and ended up going with Sp/Sx.

Why? There's a really strong correlation of Fe to high social and Fi to low social.

True.

More precisely, I think I conflated 'Luciferianism,' so to speak, with Fi PoLR and Sp/Sx specifically, and that's how the confusion happened.

[Roshan]

Well, it isn't really clearer to me Anthony, but anyway now I'm going to relate My Typing Journey With Curtis Yarvin because it should shed light on a lot of aspects to all this.

I had noticed a video that came up in my youtube feed with some guy I never heard of being interviewed about why the US should be a monarchy and I thought 'Oh, that's weird' and ignored it. But since I've been watching a lot of Benjamin Boyce lately, I watched this one and thought, 'Oh, that must be that guy'. During the course of it I looked him up and realized he was Mencius Moldbug, who I knew about, and afterwards I realized he was indeed making the rounds.

At first in the Boyce video I felt quite sure Yarvin was a 5w6 and 359, but by the end of it I really felt he could lead with 9 because this interview was just so all over the place it was hard for me to see 5w6 lead. As Anthony says. it was 'saga', but let's recall what makes something talking style saga for 9 (in contrast to story for 7, which is the closest to it, and in part thesis for 5) : it's not distinguishing between foreground and background. So while Yarvin really just kept leaving out or glossing over 'what was essential'-- what his 'monarchy' even is, how we will ever get there, and much, much more--the world must know all the ships that sailed for Troy.

Also, his prediction toward the end that we'll all just have this joyous major regime change like one big party was so 'positive attitude' I felt like I was drinking a vat of pink molasses. I could see this kind of fairy tale la la land with 5w4 lead, but 5w6? So I pretty much thought 9 lead by the end and I even thought he might be triple attached and really just spinning for the sake of treading water (which is not to say he isn't brilliant but that it's possible to get stupider the smarter you are). On top of it, I actually thought he was so scattered he must be [so/sx]!

Then I started watching another video of his (and then several more and read some of his stuff) and quickly realized the head was indeed 5w6 and did indeed lead, but the confirmation bias with the stacking stuck with me and I didn't realize 'Mencius Moldbug' is clearly in the so/sp<--->sp/sx stream until I saw the first two votes come in. That said, the same things I focused on that caused the stacking mistake were largely the ones that made me reject both SiTe and NiTe when I did consider them. He did not stay on track like SiTe and he did not collapse like NiTe in the Boyce video. And I mean really not.

That said, the ultimate disqualifier for SiTe was that he absolutely does not value Si absolutely. What he seems to have is a 'parallel development' of his fourth function, one that goes beyond just 'peacocking'--it's obvious in the poems he reads that he's somehow steeped in Si due to his acute, internalized perceptions of the physical realm. But to be steeped in it isn't the same as to value it absolutely and we know from the first video that he doesn't because, despite his deluge of historical references in it (that wound up coming off like he was winning a trivia game), he never defined monarchy as a category and he simply did not care. A business corporation is a monarchy because it has a CEO. No, It is not and this is not valued Si.

So SiTe was not possible from the first video if you understand how clear it is about categories, and how much he warped them (and even splotchy Si role on NiTe seemed very unlikely). Then, if he were SiTe in shadow, as SeTi he wouldn't be talking about regime change as one big love fest. He would really be talking power, blood and guts and all, not his psychedelic fantasy playground version of it.

In any case, he's less Ninish, more 5w6ish, elsewhere than in the Boyce video--which is the reason why I chose this interview and insisted no one look into anything else yet. I wanted to see if some people would go with the 9 lead like I did and then switch to 5w6 once they saw something else and that's what happened. I believe his Nine sloth got amplified in this video by the interviewing style of his NeFi kindred (not that it isn't massive anyway). Because Benjamin mostly just winds people up and watches them go, and there are a lot of commonalities between Ne and 9: both are stuck in positive reframing and both will play a lot of footsie with the boundaries of things. So Benjamin is going to set these tendencies off and will not stop them.

tbcd

[Roshan]

Now compare what happens when Yarvin is interviewed by TiSe Freddie Sayers, editor of Unherd, which Mary Harrington writes for. Like Boyce, Sayers is a genuine interviewer, so the spotlight is always on the interviewee with generous benefit of the doubt on offer. But though in today's culture wars-ridden landscape Sayers is pretty close to Boyce politically, Sayers is ultimately more to the right so his views should be more compatible with Yarvin than Boyce's are. But ct-wise Sayers and Yarvin are unequals, and Ti dominant is not Ti tool nor is Se tool wielded Se role splotchily flaunted, so Sayers is not going to let Yarvin supervise him if he makes extraordinary claims. Which Yarvin clearly immediately grasps.

[Vincent]

I'll start by trying to recount my own process with his typing (which might take several posts because i'm likely to be interrupted right now).

When i began watching the first video, he pretty quickly struck me as a 5w6 lead with 9 and 3, and probably [so/sx].
A provocative cynic mayor of dystopia, or something very close to that. And i should probably note that it happens relatively rarely with me that the first impression is an enneagram one. Usually ct impressions come first, but not in this case. The only ct impression i got for a pretty long while was something like "hmm, it's going to be tricky".

Then the more i listened to his babbles the more frustrated i became. The thing is he had piqued my interest almost immediately in part because teenage me went through an "anarcho-monarchist" phase and i was pretty curious to see how he would argue his stuff. But.. he never really did. He kept arguing against other people's counter-arguments, argued for the mere theoretical possibility of it, took more than an hour to make a single positive argument for it, and even then it was a pretty lame and vague one. In the meantime he kept hitting at what appeared to me as very low-hanging fruits with more and more references. Most of the time overkill ones. And that's when i got overwhelmed. Si overwhelmed.

At that point i briefly considered SiTe with a LOT of Ne peacocking as his possible ct. But i went back, rewatched and realized that most of the "history" he was throwing out there was not only overkill but bogus in one way or another and i came to wonder if he could be TeNi in full TiNe shadow. Ne 6th authority complex and Si polr-turned-agenda.

tbcd.

[Vincent]

That hypothesis lasted about as long as the SiTe one. There was just no way he could be Te frame, even in shadow, since his argument for monarchy were about as impractical and ungrounded in reality as my teenage ones, if not more.

After that i went back and forth for a bit between NeTi in some degree of NiTe shadow or NiTe in some degree of NeTi shadow. By the end of the first video i was pretty positive that NeTi was right, that he was indeed Fi polr and Fe agenda (for example, the truckers are definitely on his "Fe trend radar" but he clearly doesn't give a single fuck about them as actual people), and that his Si, not matter how overwhelming it was at times, was indeed Si 4th.
There was just no way he could be my kindred, but mirage made perfect sense.

tbcd.

[Vincent]

Once i got "de-miraged" enough and i realized how much of a prick he is, i realized that he was one of those archeo-futurist alphas we talked about when we were doing Jacque Fresco on enneaforum.
Another architect building a-historical and a-geographical Ti utopias that could work if only people weren't people.
Not quite futurist enough to be a prophet of Singularity like many of his Silicon Valley neighbors, and not quite archeo- enough to be an anarcho-primitivist like his likely dual (and also neighbor) John Zerzan. But enough to think of himself as the priest counselor and the Machiavel of the Prince 2.0 (to be released soon).

It struck me that he was something like a reflexive and compulsive contrarian, pretty far from most NeTis in his professed ideology (but still pretty similar to them in term of actual ethos). An unapologetic and self-glorified troll with dreams of memetic immortality. Something like a "quadra-traitor" (in the same way marxists would talk about "class-traitors"), turning his back on his quadra ideals and literally asking for the wheel to turn to the next quadra. Which is in large part why i moved his stacking to [so/sp].

I didn't really consider 9 lead as an option, but when i rewatched the first video before the first deadline i did wonder for a bit if he could be on the other side of the 7-5 line, so to speak, because of the fraudulence, because of all the positivity, and because of his wizard of odds-ish fantasy of pushing the reboot button only to let the chips fall where they may.

The second video kind of sealed the deal, for both the stacking and the lead type. The panoramic view, the mechanical eyes, the tick sucking out electricity... the whole thing really really struck me as so/SP -> sp/sx 5w6 lead.