CT Adult Poll Dance #3 Jim Clark

[Anthony]

his apparent distaste toward the 'delta machine' made me disregard TeSi as a possibility.

Where do you see a distate for the "delta machine" specifically ?

Well, prior to thinking about the "briar patch" comment, I still got the impression that he experienced himself as a fish out of water at Stanford and likely other similar major institutions, which I attributed to the delta machine. Though now, that actually seems highly unlikely to me; ultimately, he seems to have integrated into the machine quite successfully.

In that case, to me, it seems like added confirmation that he's a high Se user,

Why ? I'm not done rewatching yet but at the moment, i'm less and less certain about that.

Same, now. I somewhat erroneously thought the "briar patch" comment—which, when I rewatched the video and heard him say it, interpreted as something like "taking a lustful enjoyment in, or at least finding humor in, the danger/high stakes of working/'playing ball' ('throwing...') in the briar patch"—implied that he was playing some sort of high-stakes game, that that's how he thought about his own undertakings, and it seemed Se-ish.

[Anthony]

and that's how I ruled out SeFi. At first, it seemed possible that he had Se and Te in the conscious stack but was in no way FiSe nor an iNtuitive; he had to be a sensor. That's the only reason I briefly considered it. I do however think that it's worth reconsideration.

Why?

Well, I'm not so sure about that anymore. I understand at least part of the reason you're typing him as Si dominant—

He seems so extremely energetically grounded and concrete—a real country-style hick (as he basically says), and pretty much everything he says is of the same nature. I feel like he's about to offer me chewing tobacco and ask me to go deer hunting since the 12-gauge shotgun is already packed in his pick-up truck.

I can't say I've really seen that^ with Se dom either, and it seems even less expected with gamma SeFi.

At the time of writing that, I'd been under the impression that he probably wasn't Si valuing (for the reasons in my last few posts), that he was high Se (but wasn't sure of which), and had rethought my typing of him as ST because "computer guy." So, SeFi became an option again, which is why I said it's worth reconsideration.

I'm not sure what I think about his CT, yet, but I'm going to watch the last video posted and rewatch at least some of the first one. I can't quite make sense of Te PoLR or Fe PoLR for him—too adept at and oriented to "TInkEring," as I said before, and too "Bill Clinton-y" (as you said) for Fe PoLR.

The first thing I'll probably go back to is TeSi, and now I'm thinking about Se demo...

[Amy]

Okay so I voted SiTe 6w5 136 tritype sp/so. I remember thinking he was an Fi user as a first impression, though I think I could have been conflated that for Si ‘warmth’ maybe. He seemed too down to earth (self described “real country hick” who pulled himself up ‘by the bootstraps’ and went into comp-sci) and seemed to describe his past relatively easy to be NiTe. Around 3:00 for example he describes the 5 nodes of ARPANET, and the size of it when those details aren’t necessary to tell us that it became today’s internet, which he ‘couldn’t have predicted’. All which ultimately ties into where he is today. For some reason I didn’t think Te first, even though it wouldn’t be hard t see someone who is with his position. Despite owning multiple companies and delegating, he seems like he’d rather just program on his boat. Like teaching other people his set of rules is just a necessary evil to keep the clock ticking. Also at one point I remember he corrected himself to refer to the company rather than himself when taking credit for something invented. I suppose in some contexts this could be seen as political in a non Fe PoLR way (everyone on the team!), but he seems to have the attitude of everyone can take credit for a job well done, as long as it gets done. Like I don’t think he avoids recognition at all, but he acts rather casual about it all, and doesn’t really seem Fe role. He seems to have found Ne maybe, like all of his companies and projects are just multitudes of his skillsets, rather than himself. He’ll be the ‘face’ and talk on a podcast, but it’s like a giant project rather than a political game or a sales tactic. Even sp/so seems to fit as practical and political of ‘the homeland’, but less concerned with trying to influence perception outside of that. I felt much less sure of the enneagram type. Looking back I don’t know why I didn’t consider 7 for him when he has his hand on multiple projects. I considered 5, but I do not think he is not sp 5 castle. At some points he does talk about ‘security’ systems (ex. 28 min.). He also mentioned quitting school for the navy (one system traded out for another(?)) before going back, but I’m not at all confident that that means ‘6’ at this point (or at least not necessary first). 7w6 as a fix seems more likely. For the heart fix, I don’t have much to say other then I just assumed type 3 (3w4?) ‘competence’, he’s not a ‘sales person’, but there’s still obvious vanity in his work and the companies abilities. For the gut fix, I thought he was on the 1/9 line (easy going perfectionist). Since I was typing with 6 and 3, I just didn’t see hole as triple attached to also have a 9 fix, but 379 tritype wizard of odds may have actually worked (and 9 lead does also Sind plausible to me now). I didn’t originally take notice of when he said that the Stanford job was like “throwing in the briar patch”. I also had to look up what briar patch meant, and given the context it sounds like he meant throwing his chances towards a new opportunity when the last one went south. As in to say he was putting all his eggs in a different basket when the last time he did that he got stuck with a ‘crazy boss’. (Which I think could also mean he’s concerned with the incompetence of new authority). I think that points to him being on the 6/7 line (prepared enough to have something to fall into when one thing doesn’t work out. But willing to take a chance on a ‘hopefully better opportunity’). Despite the opportunism to move into a new area, he doesn’t seem very risk oriented, more so annoyed with incompetence. He likely would’ve waited to leave his old job when he knew he had secured a new position but the boss told him to resign. The way he’s telling the story I’m guessing he had enough faith in himself to not second guess if he would stay out of a job. I also think this points to Si lead overall because he expected to relive a previous experience, even if it’s not exactly the same (and SiTe specifically with the focus on others ‘incompetence’). I can why Se also seems possible for him (or more specifically TiSe), based on either finding or creating opportunities through what he can do, and being concerned with competence. However, I’m still leaning towards Si based on everything said above. That and I think SiTe would be more concerned with the competence of authority in particular, and less concerned with Se power games or working with Fe social leverage.

Amy, can you please divide this into paragraphs and tag me, Roshan, when you're done?

[Vincent]

Yeah, fair enough. Although, when I first watched the video, it wasn't JUST that he gave vague answers to memory-based questions. At one point, he answered to a memory-based question with "it doesn't really matter...," which struck me [albeit superficially and probably incorrectly] as revelatory of his orientation to Si in general, that it "just doesn't really matter."

Well, he says that once yeah, and the thing is he isn't even wrong : it really didn't matter.
On the other hand, he gives the impression that he probably remembers every single person in every single team from every single company he created.

My point here is that both SiFe and SiTe could easily do something like that. TiSe, with Si demonstrative and Ti frame would be more likely to comply and do the math.

He seems so extremely energetically grounded and concrete—a real country-style hick (as he basically says), and pretty much everything he says is of the same nature. I feel like he's about to offer me chewing tobacco and ask me to go deer hunting since the 12-gauge shotgun is already packed in his pick-up truck. I don't think I've ever once seen this with an intuitive, even one that grew up in a similar-ish area.

I agree. Some FeNi might come close-ish, but not quite like that.

It could be. At first, the particular way in which he was "tinkering," along with his speech patterns as I said, seemed potentially revelatory of some natural attentivity to granularity and first principles of 'concrete space,' if you will, giving way to manipulation of the concrete world in the manner seen with SeTi and TiSe. I thought he had a BIT of Elon Musk in him, though once again I probably hallucinated that. It could just be TEchnique; after all, most of what he emphasizes when talking about his technology is just cause and effect, or reaction and response ("when this is the case, just do this," like the math teacher from hell for all Te PoLR people).

Well, it seems to me that he was an "electronics guy" and an engineer before he became a "computer guy" and that he is still more of a nerd than a geek.
Another thing : he got some of his bigger successes at a time where the early internet was still in the process of establishing what became its main protocols.. After that, the vast majority of the Ti heavy alphas moved quickly and happily to pure coding and algorithms and/or focused on the "end user" aspect of things, rather than on the machine side oof it., He didn't quite did that. @vincent He was building workstations and contributed to the emergence of 3D modeling (the creation of 3d objects through direct interfacing). Even now he still has his hands dirty, directly in the hardware. And all that seems Te over Ti to me.
Sure he is also programming. But the irony here is... Bill Gates or Zuck probably don't anymore.
And think about it : the programming he is doing now certainly has nothing to do with what he was doing when he started. It's not only that he is smart, and that he never stopped learning and teaching.

Mmmm, fair enough, but with a successful TeSi for instance, is it not easy to imagine them "branching out" since their success yields more opportunities to capitalize on different stuff and begin other ventures? Nevertheless, I didn't type him as TeSi, but the reasons I thought he was ST basically amounted to "obvious sensor" and "very proficient TInkErer."

Yes with Ne agenda, TeSis are the most likely STs to become serial specialists, so to speak.

[Vincent]

Well, prior to thinking about the "briar patch" comment, I still got the impression that he experienced himself as a fish out of water at Stanford and likely other similar major institutions, which I attributed to the delta machine. Though now, that actually seems highly unlikely to me; ultimately, he seems to have integrated into the machine quite successfully.

Well, i wouldn't qualify Standford as the "delta machine". The wheel already turned to alpha there, so to speak.
I don't think he made any comment that i would consider as specifically anti-delta in that video, which, paradoxically is a pretty strong argument against SiTe.

Same, now. I somewhat erroneously thought the "briar patch" comment, which, when I rewatched the video and heard him say it, interpreted as something like "taking a lustful enjoyment in, or at least finding humor in, the danger/high stakes of working/'playing ball' ('throwing...') in the briar patch." It seemed like he'd implied that he was playing some sort of high-stakes game, that that's how he thought about his own undertakings, and it seemed Se-ish.

Well, that was also my first impression when i first watched the interview. That combined with my attempt to imagine how "the legend" was when he was younger contributed to the idea he was something like a post-industrial Baron, a gamma David battling against the alpha Goliaths of the Silicon Valley.
But that's not really what's going on. He is not really talking about himself when he makes those "dogs eat dogs" comments. His model is probably closer to something like that : "they are a bunch of savages. They fight each others all the time, and while they are busy doing that, i do my own thing at my own pace, and in the end, the ones who survive will buy my stuff".

[Vincent]

You mean like here?

I'd only seen two clips of him before the one I posted, which just seemed to expand on them and didn't change anything, and nothing 'early enough' was coming up. But this one just popped up on my yt home page. It's not THAT much earlier but it's pretty different--so I suppose at this point you may as well look at and post any other materials. I haven't even finished watching this yet let alone processed it; I just want to post it now and say it gives a new impression.

Well, my first new impression is that this could easily be Ne agenda/Ni polr with a heavy dose of goofy delta Fe role. And that he could easily be my conflictor.

I suspect that if that was the first thing i saw from him, he would only have hesitated ? Vincent wrong word or typo on pronoun? between FeSi and TeSi, and settled on latter.

Also tbc I really felt the choice was between SiFe and TeSi (the latter of the very TiSe aura ones, but I barely considered the reverse). However the more I watched, the more Si he seemed and I wasn't delighted with Te PolR (although I COULD make a good argument for it). So I wound up making it between the two Si's, though I was even less delighted with Fe PolR than Te PolR. There were no other types I could see.

I could see a Te polr SiFe building a tech empire in the Silicon Valley. Pretty sure Zuck did exactly that.
What seems harder to buy to me is that such a Te polr SiFe would do it not only successfully but repeatedly, with completely different companies and products. I suspect most SiFes would stick to their initial success as long as possible, and would rather transform it into something else than just move to something else like Jim did.
They create their things through Fe auxiliary, but they experience the end of it through Fi 6th, so it's always a bit like a break up, from which they might never recover. He really doesn't seem to have that at all.

The other thing is that he would have to be SiTi, and he doesn't show any of the usual symptoms of that. Not a double withdrawn, not haunted by lovecraftian horrors,not at risk to lose his mind over-interpreting the Shining, no hint of Kantian rigidity, etc.

tbcd.

[Roshan]

.
They create their things through Fe auxiliary, but they experience the end of it through Fi 6th, so it's always a bit like a break up, from which they might never recover. He really doesn't seem to have that at all.

No, he does not, and here's the thing:

Having myself failed to notice his Te/Fi gestures, I had a very GOOD story for how he could be SiFe. But the ONE thing that really really bugged me was why would ANY Si dom get married FOUR times all because of divorce?


Dig it, man.

tbcd

[Roshan]

Okay, first let's get clear about the briar patch, people. Anthony, Amy, anyone and everyone.

In this discussion user Jeruba and allies win hands down but you should at least scan the whole thing to understand just how common and deeply ingrained this story was to people of Clark's age and rural background.

https://www.fluther.com/73358/what-does ... iar-patch/

Below is the dramatization, which came out when he was two years old in 1946. The 7 hypothesis is captivating Amy, but there's a couple of things here: Br'er Rabbit is a trickster but so is the whole 'Seven space' (which is 6w7 to 8w7). Aaand Br'er Rabbit is a rabbit. Interestingly, we have the so-called 'rabbit Sixes', who are 'phobic', and Br'er Rabbit tricks Br'er Fox and Br'er Bear into throwing him back into where he was raised and where he is safe.

So there's that to consider. But my original reason for bringing this up was because of ct. Jim Clark was raised on a farm. He uses as his metaphor for entering embryonic Silicon Valley professionally (after the military and Academe) a being safe because cast out into thick, complex, but familiar vegetation and this seems to me VERY Si > Se. OTHER people were playing 'war games'. HE got to TInkEr in the ThIckEt.

I mean this may sound like nitpicking and hyperfocusing, but suppose you were the child of a bullfighter or a boxer, raised in and near the arena, and you used as your central metaphor for how you started your 'totally different' adult career to 'grab the bull by the horns' or 'not pull any punches', you'd know what you meant vividly.

[Roshan]

I'm not sure what I think about his CT, yet, but I'm going to watch the last video posted and rewatch at least some of the first one. I can't quite make sense of Te PoLR or Fe PoLR for him—too adept at and oriented to "TInkEring," as I said before, and too "Bill Clinton-y" (as you said) for Fe PoLR.

The first thing I'll probably go back to is TeSi, and now I'm thinking about Se demo...

The problem is he wasn't like Bill Clinton in the OP video (or the other ones I'd seen) and although I started between SiFe and TeSi because he's just so earnest and goofy--not a hunter, a farmer (they backed my project because they knew I was honest and wasn't it for the ego-he's like a frigging Boy Scout)-- I just eventually felt I was being overwhelmed with too much Si for him to be 'just' TeSi creative subtype. More about his Si soon, but the extreme extent of it in OP vid really seems to have to do with his age--and oc if he really were Si dom it wouldn't quite work this way. Where is Ni role, e.g.? In any case he is still certain imo to be Si > Se, as Ur-Boy Scout, gee gosh darn.

And I am certainly inclined to move to TeSi creative.

[Roshan]

I ruled out SiTe pretty quickly. Almost every time the interviewer asked a memory-based question like "How old were you when-?" he was hardly able to answer"...

I'm not so sure that's really what he does

@2'45", @4'19", @6'30"....

So to get back to his Si as I said I woukd....

Anthony, I just noticed you eventually liked this post I'm quoting, yet up to here you're still insisting his Si memory/time contextualization is shabby. I don't understand. Did you go back to the three places in the first six minutes of the OP vid that I gave time stamps for?