CT Adult Poll Dance #4 Alexander Biener

[Vincent]

Why should I be right if I'm just misunderstanding you?

If I am it's by accident. (Let us not over-attribute to Norns lest they become angered).

Well, my brain is pretty fried right now but my impression is that maybe you understood me better than i understood myself actually, and that you connected some dots i hadn't connected yet.

I mean, it does make sense to me that what i was talking about regarding the disconnected auxiliary would also be true about the polr, affecting both Je functions for me, both Ji functions in Allie's case, especially since we already know that, on the other side of the axis, both the agenda and the 6th tends to be over-active in some way.

Also, the lack of a fully functional canary in the coal mine might explain why jumpers sometimes seem to be drawn into polr territory (and sometimes toward their conflictors) in a way that seems different from just counterphobia.

Let's take an example of a heavy-duty, undeniable jumper we know very well. Does Sarah lack an 'Ne canary in the coal mine'? She certainly was often oblivious to when NovElty was going south but is that what such a c in the cm would be like?

No, i don't think so and atm i can't think of any example where she would have been canary in the coal mine in an obvious way.
But tbcd.

[Roshan]

Let's take an example of a heavy-duty, undeniable jumper we know very well. Does Sarah lack an 'Ne canary in the coal mine'? She certainly was often oblivious to when NovElty was going south but is that what such a c in the cm would be like?

No, i don't think so and atm i can't think of any example where she would have been canary in the coal mine in an obvious way.
But tbcd.

You seem to not be understanding me.

You don't think what? YOu don't think that a canary in the coal mine would ignore when Ne goes south? I agree. That's why I was positing she lacks the canary in the coal mine.

My question at the end I can restate as "Do you agree with me that someone WITH an Ne PolR 'canary in the coalmine' WOULD (unlike her) notice (rather acutely) when Ne goes south?"

I think you may need to rest. Although I may be communicating poorly too.

[Vincent]

You seem to not be understanding me.

You don't think what? YOu don't think that a canary in the coal mine would ignore when Ne goes south? I agree.

Yes that's what i meant. I don't think that this is what a canary in the coal mine would be like.

That's why I was positing she lacks the canary in the coal mine.

Yes i understood that, and that sounds right to me.

My question at the end I can restate as "Do you agree with me that someone WITH an Ne PolR 'canary in the coalmine' WOULD (unlike her) notice (rather acutely) when Ne goes south?"

Yes i agree with that. Someone with a Ne polr c in the cm would probably be among the first ones to notice actually.

I think you may need to rest. Although I may be communicating poorly too.

Well, yeah, i definitely need to rest, Will head up to bed now.

[Roshan]

Anyway, what strikes me is that he is jumping over the most important and decisive aspect of the Si here.
In traditional societies, even alpha ones, the use of psychedelics is usually not a Fe Vincent article thing, horizontal and egalitarian. It's a very vertical and very initiatic one. You do them with and only with someone who did them before, with and only with someone who knows. In other words : you do them as part of a lineage tree.
And i'm pretty sure a non-jumper FeSi wouldn't have missed that tree.

Even when he talks about the necessity of being rooted and grounded, it seems to me he is still ultimately talking about Fe, with lots of wishful thinking that roots and ground would emerge on their own from the community, if we just "come together".

So, reading over...this echoes Anthony'searlier post, only contextualizing further for what happens to Si and hallucinogens with Allie.

Allie can, and does, talk about our collective stories and traditional practices that are Si related until he's blue in the face; but really he's very careless and ultimately reveals a wishful thinking that participation in inNovativE group experience itself--the Fe swim and surf--heals all things (custodianship of healing being in large part the province of Si).

Constantly surfing into the future (Ne) on big fun Fe swim waves creates a momentum--Anthony's word. This yields Se force, which is endowed with a talismanic power. As long as we're on the surfboard together--and the FeNe will somehow 'captain' that surfboard--all will be well and the Si domain will magically be taken care of.

So Si's essential aspects--the ones that go beyond sprtizing about it all day--don't have to be deeply or carefully tended to. Be it concerning hallucinogens or anything else, Si will just 'happen' by virtue of Se being amplified by constant Fe surfing into the wild Ne (-->Ti) blue yonder.

Kowabunga.

[Roshan]

[/user]time=1657227748 user_id=49]
More about Allie's Si, and more specifically his relationship with stories :

Before he talks about stories of "banal apocalypse" and tells us the deep shit we are in with that adorable grin, he opens up by talking about Stanger Things, which he presents as a story of our time.

No that isn't quite what he does, Vincent. As 'one of the organizers of this fine conference', he says 'this track [of the conference, I assume] is called 20th Century Psychedelia', and to understand the role 21st century psychedelics can play, he thinks we have to look back at 20th century psychedelics. And we also have to look back at the stories we're fascinated by right now , so we have to look at Stranger Things. And we find that Stranger Things focuses on the 80s, when we knew we were good and Russians were bad and so on, and this is because we're so lost now in a crisis of meaning, for at least the past four years, as all the great contemporary philosophers tell us.


And well, that doesn't really add up.

If you really pay attention to everything he says, it may add up even less than you thought. The thing is, he's counting on no one doing that, on people paying more attention to his charm and his charming graphics. Vincent

Stranger Things is neither about apocalypse nor about banality. It's all about the irruption of the Unheimlich in Nostalgialaland.

The stories he is talking about are polar opposite in some ways, and he doesn't seem to process the contradiction.
If he had a point there, he never collapsed it and didn't really make it.

At this point, i still don't really understand what his problem with postmodernism actually is. On some level he seems actually pretty happy with the over-abundance of "post-truth" stories and the lack of big broadcasted narratives. It almost feels like his main issue with postmodernism is that he just want something even NEwer.

It's not that he doesn't understand nostalgia, or the need for roots, or the importance of narratives. It's just that he is already moving toward something else anyway.

And that's often the things with jumpers. It's not that they don't notice or understand when there is an issue with their auxiliary function. They do, and they could talk about it all day long.
It's that it's still not enough for them to really make it their problem, which is what creative subtype people (or even polr people, as canary in the coal mine) would do.

tbcd.

[Roshan]

At this point, i still don't really understand what his problem with postmodernism actually is. On some level he seems actually pretty happy with the over-abundance of "post-truth" stories and the lack of big broadcasted narratives.

Well, after all, he told us implicitly in his personal official tweet announcing the close of RW that RW was always just a story for him.

It almost feels like his main issue with postmodernism is that he just want something even NEwer.

Which is why RW was always going to end the way it did. WIth Allie blowing a dandelion and Fuller drunk on Allie's Fe assuming he can hop back to Channel 4 and get financing for his post-rebellion documentaries after waving JP around as his mascot when he just didn't know any better. Allie was going to choose the hallucinogen crowd and Fuller was going to try to go back to what he was before, only in rather madcap fashion.

[Vincent]

And well, that doesn't really add up.

If you really pay attention to everything he says, it may add up even less than you thought. The thing is, he's counting on no one doing that, on people paying more attention to his charm and his charming graphics. Vincent

Well, in a way, he is right about that.
I mean, the thing with Ni polr people is that we meet them everywhere all the time, but they don't meet us that often. So they are pretty much used to be left unsupervised and "unconflicted", maybe more than any other type actually.
And his charm certainly works with his audience in this video.
The thing is there really is something contagious and intoxicating to Fe and Ne working together without much Si boundaries to sober it down. It makes people drop their first line of defense and it lowers their immunity, so to speak. In that regard, Allie's charisma is more similar to FeNi (with Ne demonstrative) and NeFi (with Fe demonstrative) than it is to non-jumping FeSi, imo. There really is something Pied Piper-ish to it.
And being Ne polr, David Fuller must have been especially vulnerable to this.