Ken Wilber

[Roshan]

Oh, there are more posted 15 years ago.

And an audio only recorded in 2003..

(Edit: So far I only listened to the audio a bit but I have already disserted on his E-type anon).

[Roshan]

My opinion from having read a book of his and seeing his brooding photo on the cover before the eidb thread had been that he was a 6w5. No one took it seriously at all (and I didn't feel strongly enough about it to defend it), but on the other hand they didn't take his own suggestion of possible 7 seriously either. It was just completely disregarded. And in thinking about it, when someone who soooo self-identifies as an intellectual says they're 5 OR 7, it's probably not gonna be 5.

Now from the first old video, he is definitely 3 fixed, and I assume 3w4. For that reason I doubt 3 could lead (because there is no heavy 4 up front). He also seems both 1w2 fixed and so/SP., for which reason it still could be 7 lead despite his being more rigid than one would expect for a 7. Though he certainly isn't anymore, and there is plenty of stuff he says at the end of the OP video that really sounds insanely positive attitude lead. He hasn't thought about his legacy yet because he doesn't feel old--after having been bedridden for how long, and still looking like death warmed over (while wearing the revealing shirt he shouldn't be wearing, not to speak of the wig). But anyway, he hopes his legacy will be for people to know how to get to the higher states of consciousness, because they really are "satisfying". The list goes on.

btw he wrote a book called "One Taste". That was the term he chose for total experience of higher consciousness. It may well have been a translation of a Buddhist term but he still chose it. And I found it cringe and off-putting, although I liked the excerpt from the book in "The Essential Ken Wilber".

The one with the 6w5ish cover.

[Vincent]

hmmm...no dearth of karate chops and pointing there.

I guess that one will do.

Well, that pretty much seal Vincentthe deal for me.
I considered NeTe for a bit after i read what you wrote about his airheadness but it's way easier for me to see him as my conflictor than as my contrary.

I guess what happens in the first video is that Fuller and him Vincent pronouns both meet somewhere in the shadow between TiSe and TeSi and effectively become pretty much identicals. In a really creepy way.

[Vincent]

btw the name of the book I read of his was "One Taste". That was the term he chose for total experience of higher consciousness. It may well have been a translation of a Buddhist term but he still chose it. And I found it cringe and off-putting although I liked the book.

Well, he even manage Vincent to sneak that word in when he talks about licking leper wounds...

Which interestingly enough, he eloquently frames as a test of equanimity, and not as a demonstration of humility.

About his E-type, the idea he might be a 5 didn't even cross my mind, probably for the same reason i didn't consider any introverted type ct wise. Everytime something feels missing, i get the impression it's completely missing.Not hoarded, not kept secret, not withheld. Just missing.

137 tritype definitely sounds right to me. I said in my first post that system seemed "designed in such a way that it excludes right from the start the very possibility of anything like actual doom" and that's really how it feels to me. Designed. Tailored to bear worn as an outfit and to allow the kind of intellectual posturing that makes people introduce him as "overall the smartest guy in the room".

[Roshan]

As we know I'm a bit slow-witted but at this point in my life his system really seems extremely facile. When I read him in I guess my 40's no. I wasn't grown up yet. But now...

It really does seem like a 'design for living', a manual for 'how to become enlightened' for people who would like to name drop terms from the social sciences too and, well, say they have an intellectual system.

[Vincent]

Yeah. people who want to play the whole "one day/not yet" game.
Peter Pans wearing big Daddy shoes.

And...as i suspected, his idea of "integration" is probably not that different from clasical delta ones. Probably means something close to "we will remember it with sweet nostalgia next time we go to the Museum".

[Roshan]

I stumbled upon this very interesting interview from 2011.. It seems to have some interference at times from Spanish for some reason, though. The two short but sweet comments below it are also interesting.

Again, wiki says he announced his illness publicly in 2011. But according to this posting, as far as I can see undated, this statement on his health was first sent to friends in 2002 so idk.

tbcd

[Roshan]

Here's one of the early Wilber/Fuller videos on Peterson et al. (There were a few three years ago). Very different from their recent caper. Wilber is Te >> Ti af. There is little to disagree with here and a lot to agree with strongly, but toward the end it gets long-winded again because Fuller just lets him dissert endlessly. Peterson and Wilber are rather obviously kindreds but oc Wilber's suggestion for how Peterson could improve is to understand more levels. With Wilber by accretion something must bear fruit eventually, similar to how with the accretion of annual rings you will get a fruit-bearing tree (except with levels and boxes for rings). So. Te/Si--->Ne. But actual force just must not be an agenda. And this is probably a large part of why he was flummoxed by the 'new' Peterson to the point of being airheadedly incoherent. Although 'cognitive decline' is hardly out of the question, and he also may just vary with that. Another possibility is that for whatever reasons, over the past three years he's just wound up sitting pretty in his Ne agenda--while Peterson stands ugly in his, Se, in Wllber's loviNg Eyes. These three possibilities are not mutually exclusive. At all.

In the end Wilber's big criticism of Peterson is that he doesn't wave around an EnlighteNmEnt flag (and neither does Harris). But as a former adherent has noted,, this flag waving was at the root of the downfall of his movement (though illness should not be underestimated). I see supervisees far more pedestrian than Ken Wilber go gaga with Ne routinely. A surfeit of radiance blocks the PolR.

[Vincent]

Very different from their recent caper. Wilber is Te >> Ti af.

Yes, it's very very obvious to me here, even from the first few minutes.
Just downloaded the video. I'll watch it tomorrow morning in our train to Bordeaux.
tbcd soon when i'm settled there.