Sam, Detransitioner

[Roshan]

We have a self-preservation Four. The 'sp cover' is evident right away physically and vocally though only at the end does he disclose any information that explicitly reveals sp firstness. It's evident in the focused, laconic nature of the discourse and in the apparent, almost mask-like, lack of emotional affect on the face and the starkness of the delivery. But the Four emotionality is conveyed in the choice of words and in the determined insistence ("dauntless") on their power. Despite, and because of, the starkness, every word directly transmits feeling. No theorizing here (even though there is plenty of theory built into what's disclosed). Pauses are unusually pregnant. This is the sp first Dauntless Four, like a candle burning brightly in a case, and, Essence aside, I'm sure he was equally undaunted--if also more neurotic--when insisting on transitioning and when 'playing a woman'.

What's the rest of the typing? (If you don't think sp first and/or Four, feel free to disagree).

[Roshan]

Well, I watched this one with Vincent because the thumbnail was mobile and I saw he was moving his hands a lot, so I thought it would be significantly different from the one above. Aaand...yes and no.

[ImpartialLake1256]

to say that this person has depth is an understatement. yes, the 4. indisputably...

i think he is 4w5, 6w7, 9w1 sp/sx

sp/sx: this does feel tricky and like i could be totally off base due to his being sort of amorphous. this is an incredibly unique individual. my guess is that he is consciously utilizing his underutilized instinct due to a high level of health. my guess is sp/sx because i sense an intensity peering through the sp. the way he speaks about his desirability to men as a woman conveys seduction as effortless for him, as an example.

4w5: there isn't a 3 bone in his body, imo

6w7: he thanks his viewers for trusting him with their stories. he is committed to fostering a safe environment for the people in his sphere. he is loyal to them - he zooms with them, he responds as much as he can - dutifully. he mentioned starting a patreon for live discussion and q&a. also, i view his sx as 6 - strength & beauty.

9w1: sometimes, it feels to me as though he could float away.

[Vincent]

We thought the same for the instinct and the lead fix, and also for the level of health and the order of the fix.
For the head, Roshan suggested 7w6 and i'm more and more convinced that it's right (i initially considered all heads but 5, and was leaning toward 6w5).
For the gut fix we were and still are torn between 1w9 and 9w1. I'll need to watch more but i suspect 1w9 will turn out to be right.

We also discussed the ct and considered quite a few possibilities. At this point Fi dominance seems almost certain and Se polr seems more likely than Ne polr. Our tentative typing would be FiSi with some FeSe aura.

tbcd.

[Roshan]

We thought the same for the instinct and the lead fix, and also for the level of health and the order of the fix.

We were actually torn about the stacking for quite a while, with Vincent thinking [sp/so] and me [sp/sx]. until after the second video Vincent settled on SP/sx "Ascetic". But now there is a part of me that wonders if he might not be sx last.

For the head, Roshan suggested 7w6 and i'm more and more convinced that it's right (i initially considered all heads but 5, and was leaning toward 6w5).

Well, surely you weren't thinking of 7w8. In any case, I say Seven because he reminds me a lot of my late friend Damien who is a near-typing twin for sure and was definitely Seven-fixed, but also because Seven operates a bit differently when Four leads, especially 4w5; the Gluttony is far less overt, and this is a very common combination (for the rarity). See, for example, this guy here. (He's Four all the way in Five; Sam has 3w4 subwing, so he does have a smidgen of Three). I'm quite sure of Mercouris's type even though the group was slow on the uptake. Seven with 4w5 has more gravitas, but you can also see typical Sevenness glimmer through in Sam.

For the gut fix we were and still are torn between 1w9 and 9w1. I'll need to watch more but i suspect 1w9 will turn out to be right.

Yes, we were torn but he has three factors that are already exceedingly Oneish: his Four has integrated all of its One by now; his Seven (assuming it's Seven) will have integrated a good deal of its high One, along with the ordinary movement 7<-->1; and his stacking is going to be Oneish as SP/sx because it's the "Ascetic (almost so/sp)--even if it turns out to be SP/so there is also Oneishness to that.

Now, if we then were to type him 9w1, it would obviously be Nine "all the way in One". So all things considered, I'm veering more to Team Nine atm because the One is easily already accounted for. On the other hand that would be Damien's exact typing twin and Sam is more Oneish than Damien. But I agree with ImpartialLake1256--it's like Sam could just waft away. (Damien even more so, btw).

We also discussed the ct and considered quite a few possibilities. At this point Fi dominance seems almost certain and Se polr seems more likely than Ne polr. Our tentative typing would be FiSi with some FeSe aura.

Well, far more likely actually; he seems an Ne/Si user to me. I don't see any other possibilities for him but FiSi. I struggled for a long time with Damien's ct and that's where I eventually landed for much the same reason--no other options. (FeSe aura just means he's integrating his shadow, or lower, functions).
* * *
EDIT: There is something wrong with Sam and Damien being exact exact typing twins at SP/sx 4w53w4-7w66w5-9w11w2. it could be Sam is sx last or Damien was sp/sx midstream, or both; It could be about health level; it could be Sam is One-fixed; it could be one or the other has the second and third fixes in a different order; it could be any combination thereof. (It could not be Sam has no 3w4 subwing--he spent most of his life 'being' his mother, which is a form of Deceit, and was theatrical, histrionic about it).

[ImpartialLake1256]

still perceiving 9w1...

as well as 6w7 - not seeing the 4 influenced/tempered 7w6 "the entertainer" in him . he seems quite modest to me overall. perhaps due to this transitioning stage but, to me, it seems inherent. i don't see gluttony. please point out where you do!

i also still think sp/sx:
12:28 - he made the effort to get dressed up and go to the gathering - his first in 5-6 years - and then he proceeded to sit by himself because his voice was "too low" to interact with people. i was surprised that he took it to the extreme of sitting by himself. am wondering if this could be 4 shame + social last combo at work.

[Roshan]

ImpartialLake1256,

First let me say that I did think Sam seemed much more Six-fixed in this video than in the other two, and i did consider it for his head for the first time, but in the end it didn't hold up, and here's why.

In this video we have glimpses of the Gluttony in the mischievous Puckishness of the sequence starting around 9'45 and ending around 11'08". At its beginning Sam delights in the disruption of people's perceptions due to his detransitioning and at the end he laughs at and shrugs off the inevitable confusion it causes. Along with the Gluttony of the Puckishness, there is the sense that this dilemma is all like water off a duck's back; this is the unattached nature of Seven, a frustration type. Six is attached; the Five-Seven line has a 'teflon' quality to its 'object relations'. Sam will be similarly Puckish and teflon at other times--he already has Nine; he cannot have two attachment fixes (Six and Nine).

We also glimpse the Gluttony in something as simple as his attitude toward the coffee.Three mugs is a lot of coffee for one sitting and being in the morning we can assume there will be more sittings throughout the day. Not that Four with Six couldn't similarly guzzle coffee but there is absolutely no shame or excuses, just a rotund "Oh God, I really love coffee". And we can glimpse the Gluttony at the beginning of this video when he announces that he doesn't have a 'plan' to these videos. E7 = E-Plan and so he has to renounce planning; once renounced, it's a 'journey of emergences', that 'is spontaneous and it's a revelation' (1'29"). Not that Four with Six couldn't have a similar journey; it's just that it's like he's putting us on notice that there is to be no 'limits setting' here--talking style Six and in some sense Six's world view. It's the finality of the non-finality of the 'teflon'--nothing will have to, nothing is bound to, 'stick'. Again, not double attached.

But above all and most intrinsically, the Gluttony of the Sevenness is to be found in a very premise of these videos: that Sam had to confront painful things about his false self because all his life he had been pain-avoidant. It is impossible to underscore enough just how if anything pain-seeking (masochistic) the combination Four/Six is--especially with 4w5--and yet Sam's story is one of pain avoidance. If a Sam with a Six fix had made a similar series of videos, they would have been about having focused on the wrong roots of the pain, not on a lifetime of pain avoidance. Eli has the Avoidance of E7 as Pain; Riso Hudson has the Basic Fear of E7 as Deprivation (of sources of pleasure and sustenance). Sam continually refers to his decades long transition as a form of escape; he hammers this in, and Escape is Seven. E6 is Fight or Freeze, E7 is Flight itself. Seven is the domain of Flight, of flying.

So Sam's story, taken as a whole and in its essentials, gets to the core of what Sevenness is. Sam expounds eloquently on this pain avoidance and the concomitant anguish of facing the pain beginning at 5'01" and continuing on to 7'06". (e.g. "They [we] just want to feel the positive and so we look away from the stuff we can't deal with". And he will touch on it later too. Again, it can't be stressed enough how atypical this is of 4w5 to begin with, let alone 4w5 with Six; this is a Seven fix, in tandem with Nine. It has to be double positive for a 4w5. And sure enough, immediately after this segment, he goes into the need to be seen--which is what absolutely clinches 9 >> 1, lest there were any doubt left. He has been talking about the influences of his fixes; first his Seven fix and then he proceeds to the Nine.

And so we come to the Entertainer. E.g. @14'15" "I just realized I've always been wearing a costume, always been wearing some kind of costume...the performance, the persona". Sam as the Entertainer may not be so visible in how he is these videos but his characterization of himself in the transition days indicates that it was (hopefully I can find where this is far more pronounced in another video I saw). And, in speaking of Entertainers, it should be mentioned that the video series does exist. That might seem like a cheap shot, but with the heavy sp first and social last that he has on a 4wFIVE--Sam is an extreme withdrawn-- I'm not so sure if we took away the Seven that it would exist.

So the series exists and in it in other videos he brings us to his favorite woodland place (not in this one oc) and exuberantly, with radiance, introduces us to his understanding of merging with the cosmos and God and the All. Not that a Four with Six couldn't do that; just that it wouldn't have that transparent simplicity, there would be a skepticism to it, or at very least a refutation of other people's potential skepticism. But there is no such acknowledgement; it is sheer, unadulterated oneness with the universe, and this is not a high level abandonment of Doubt, because healthy Six will allay Doubt, not ignore it; this is going toward E7 L1 Ecstatic Appreciator.

So 7w6 fix for Sam. Sam is 479, he is a Puck . Granted, rather grim in his spartan bedroom with his heavy eyeglasses in a particularly somber mood, but even Pucks have their ups and downs. Tritype 479 is called by the Fauvres in one of the few times they hit paydirt--take most of the link with a grain of salt--'The Gentle Spirit', and that is what it is, and that is what
Sam is, seen very clearly in the first video here. No 469 ever would be quite so spritely, or so ecstatic (at least not so 'ecstatic on an even keel' ).

[Roshan]

still perceiving 9w1...

Like I said, the 9 >> 1 was clinched with the life story of needing to feel seen--because at the very root of the Nine fixation is feeling unseen and Sam stresses this theme in all his videos so far. This stuck out to @Vincent as well as to me (not that I hadn't already joined Team Nine).

It should be mentioned here, though, that conferring Sam with a Nine fix almost demands that he then have a Seven fix. He needs the double line to One on the two fixes--Seven and Four--to account for just how Oneish he can be.

i also still think sp/sx:
12:28 - he made the effort to get dressed up and go to the gathering - his first in 5-6 years - and then he proceeded to sit by himself because his voice was "too low" to interact with people. i was surprised that he took it to the extreme of sitting by himself. am wondering if this could be 4 shame + social last combo at work.

I thought [sp/sx] myself, I just had a nagging doubt after Vincent first said [sp/so]. I'm not surprised at all that Sam took it to that extreme; I could see myself doing it. I have the Six, he has the social last, both not on a positive attitude fix lead, that conspire with the Four (w5) to lead to such drastic behaviors. But you know, the fact that he could take it to such extremes, that he was allowed to just sit there and stew in his misery, shows you just how much people suck. People in groups being just about the worst. Be that as it may, yes, for Sam it was the Four--especially 4w5--coupled with the extreme social lastness--very heavy sp first--that led to the debacle.

[Roshan]

ImpartialLake1256,

First let me say that I did think Sam seemed much more Six-fixed in this video than in the other two, and i did consider it for his head for the first time, but in the end it didn't hold up, and here's why.

In this video we have glimpses of the Gluttony in the mischievous Puckishness of the sequence starting around 9'45" and ending around 11'08". At its beginning Sam delights in the disruption of people's perceptions due to his detransitioning and at the end he laughs at and shrugs off the inevitable confusion it causes. Along with the Gluttony of the Puckishness, there is the sense that this dilemma is all like water off a duck's back; this is the unattached nature of Seven, a frustration type. Six is attached; the Five-Seven line has a 'teflon' quality to its 'object relations'. Sam will be similarly Puckish and teflon at other times--he already has Nine; he cannot have two attachment fixes (Six and Nine).

We also glimpse the Gluttony in something as simple as his attitude toward the coffee.Three mugs is a lot of coffee for one sitting and being in the morning we can assume there will be more sittings throughout the day. Not that Four with Six couldn't similarly guzzle coffee but there is absolutely no shame or excuses, just a rotund "Oh God, I really love coffee". And we can glimpse the Gluttony at the beginning of this video when he announces that he doesn't have a 'plan' to these videos. E7 = E-Plan and so he has to renounce planning; once renounced, it's a 'journey of emergences', that 'is spontaneous and it's a revelation' (1'29"). Not that Four with Six couldn't have a similar journey; it's just that it's like he's putting us on notice that there is to be no 'limits setting' here--talking style Six and in some sense Six's world view. It's the finality of the non-finality of the 'teflon'--nothing will have to, nothing is bound to, 'stick'. Again, not double attached.

But above all and most intrinsically, the Gluttony of the Sevenness is to be found in a very premise of these videos: that Sam had to confront painful things about his false self because all his life he had been pain-avoidant. It is impossible to underscore enough just how if anything pain-seeking (masochistic) the combination Four/Six is--especially with 4w5--and yet Sam's story is one of pain avoidance. If a Sam with a Six fix had made a similar series of videos, they would have been about having focused on the wrong roots of the pain, not on a lifetime of pain avoidance. Eli has the Avoidance of E7 as Pain; Riso Hudson has the Basic Fear of E7 as Deprivation (of sources of pleasure and sustenance). Sam continually refers to his decades long transition as a form of escape; he hammers this in, and Escape is Seven. E6 is Fight or Freeze, E7 is Flight itself. Seven is the domain of Flight, of flying.

So Sam's story, taken as a whole and in its essentials, gets to the core of what Sevenness is. Sam expounds eloquently on this pain avoidance and the concomitant anguish of facing the pain beginning at 5'01" and continuing on to 7'06". (e.g. "They [we] just want to feel the positive and so we look away from the stuff we can't deal with". And he will touch on it later too. Again, it can't be stressed enough how atypical this is of 4w5 to begin with, let alone 4w5 with Six; this is a Seven fix, in tandem with Nine. It has to be double positive for a 4w5. And sure enough, immediately after this segment, he goes into the need to be seen--which is what absolutely clinches 9 >> 1, lest there were any doubt left. He has been talking about the influences of his fixes; first his Seven fix and then he proceeds to the Nine.

And so we come to the Entertainer. E.g. @14'15" "I just realized I've always been wearing a costume, always been wearing some kind of costume...the performance, the persona". Sam as the Entertainer may not be so visible in how he is these videos but his characterization of himself in the transition days indicates that it was (hopefully I can find where this is far more pronounced in another video I saw). And, in speaking of Entertainers, it should be mentioned that the video series does exist. That might seem like a cheap shot, but with the heavy sp first and social last that he has on a 4wFIVE--Sam is an extreme withdrawn-- I'm not so sure if we took away the Seven that it would exist.

So the series exists and in it in other videos he brings us to his favorite woodland place (not in this one oc) and exuberantly, with radiance, introduces us to his understanding of merging with the cosmos and God and the All. Not that a Four with Six couldn't do that; just that it wouldn't have that transparent simplicity, there would be a skepticism to it, or at very least a refutation of other people's potential skepticism. But there is no such acknowledgement; it is sheer, unadulterated oneness with the universe, and this is not a high level abandonment of Doubt, because healthy Six will allay Doubt, not ignore it; this is going toward E7 L1 Ecstatic Appreciator.

So 7w6 fix for Sam. Sam is 479, he is a Puck . Granted, rather grim in his spartan bedroom with his heavy eyeglasses in a particularly somber mood, but even Pucks have their ups and downs. Tritype 479 is called by the Fauvres in one of the few times they hit paydirt--take most of the link with a grain of salt--'The Gentle Spirit', and that is what it is, and that is what
Sam is, seen very clearly in the first video here. No 469 ever would be quite so spritely, or so ecstatic (at least not so 'ecstatic on an even keel' ).