Terra Incognita

Jonathan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:10 am made my stand already.

That's a two hour interview with someone who opposed him in Russia, met him, left because of him, and wrote his biography. Just sayin'.

I'll check it out no worries there. And yeah probably counterflow instincts for him, and of course me being a synflow sort I'm going to naturally look through my 'humanist' lens to draw understanding. For some reason I genuinely dislike Vlad, the person. While predictable in his own way, there is something about him that I find untrustworthy.

Well, 'like' and 'trust' aren't exactly the first two words that come to mind...

Jonathan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:35 pm Very proud and upright Soviet, this guy, a throw-back taking advantage of people's nostalgia, back when their needs were met and didn't feel like a failed state. Giving them identity (along with poverty). Performing the needed Imperialism to restore the pride of Rossiya. True to form they promise hope but serve corruption. Why their relationship to truths is so difficult.... beyond my capacity, perhaps it's ingrained within the culture itself.

In some ways, Russians remind me of Mexicans, This Eurasian equivalent of resignation to the powers that tell them what to do, and how best to deal with it (accept). And they do.

Well, i don't know if they even feel it as a kind of resignation. A lot of Putin's true believers seem to think of themselves as freedom fighters in their own way, who are now resisting against what they perceive as the corrosive influence of the decadent West, after they already defeated the nazis and liberated us.
A lot of their nostalgia is about that too, imo, and that's why Putin is talking about « denazification » right now.

And the thing is during the last 30 years, we didn't do much to disprove them. If anything, we pretty consistently reinforced their belief in their own Manifest Destiny.

Speaking of which, this popped up on my youtube suggestion list this morning :


A debate between Bernard Henri Levy, a french jet-setter who fancies himself a philosopher, and Alexandr Dugin, one of Putin's main ideological inspiration.
It's from 2019 and what's going on between them during that debate prefigures a LOT of what's going on right now between the West and Putin.

Jonathan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:10 am Thank you, no tit for tat upon me... made my stand already.

I'm not sure i understand what you mean here
What stand was there to make Jonathan ?

Jonathan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:05 am I'll check it out no worries there. And yeah probably counterflow instincts for him, and of course me being a synflow sort I'm going to naturally look through my 'humanist' lens to draw understanding. For some reason I genuinely dislike Vlad, the person. While predictable in his own way, there is something about him that I find untrustworthy.

Well, i really hope he is actually predictable in some way.
But i'm afraid our leaders and experts might (vastly) overestimate their own ability to assess that.

That's what frightens me, for example, when i see my own President, Emmanuel Macron, coming on TV on prime time only to insist that everything is Putin's fault. For 15 minutes straight.

I mean, Putin is very unhealthy, very counterflow and he is almost triple rejection, as well as a Two lead with a LOT of very wounded pride. And Ct-wise, i'm also pretty sure he is a TiSe in deep TeSi shadow, a configuration that is in a way highly functional and highly predictable, but deceptively so, and mostly because it's SO mechanical. Kind of like a well-oiled machine ready to implode at any time.

Vincent wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:08 pm

Jonathan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:10 am Thank you, no tit for tat upon me... made my stand already.

I'm not sure i understand what you mean here
What stand was there to make Jonathan ?

Hi Vincent I was attempting to say that I have no replies to the detailed breakout, having already shared all my thoughts. I'm actually not very good at taking things down the rabbit hole. What I should said was no point for point from me. T'was certainly not meant to be rude.

Jonathan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:58 pm I'm actually not very good at taking things down the rabbit hole.

Okay but... i don't think Roshan expected you (or anyone else) to do that anyway.
I guess that's why i didn't understand your post.

Anyway thank you for the clarification Jonathan

I will have more to say (and watch) on this thread but it's late here already, so it will have to wait.

tbcd.

Vincent wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:07 pm
Well, i don't know if they even feel it as a kind of resignation. A lot of Putin's true believers seem to think of themselves as freedom fighters in their own way, who are now resisting against what they perceive as the corrosive influence of the decadent West, after they already defeated the nazis and liberated us.
A lot of their nostalgia is about that too, imo, and that's why Putin is talking about « denazification » right now.

And the thing is during the last 30 years, we didn't do much to disprove them. If anything, we pretty consistently reinforced their belief in their own Manifest Destiny.

Speaking of which, this popped up on my youtube suggestion list this morning :


A debate between Bernard Henri Levy, a french jet-setter who fancies himself a philosopher, and Alexandr Dugin, one of Putin's main ideological inspiration.
It's from 2019 and what's going on between them during that debate prefigures a LOT of what's going on right now between the West and Putin.

The resignation, this should have been prefaced on my part, bc I'm acting a little more on the poetic side than a dry objectivity. I like to watch a lot of vloggers on youtube, one of my favorites is a guy that travels through all the former satellites in what could best be described as a cultural tour of landmarks and the general public, facilitated of course by his ability to speak Russian. One of the things that gets asked a lot.... 'compare then and now'. And the general public, from women to gentleman alike, they all say it was better then, and the sentiment now is 'what can you do...'. These people are not fighters, militia, conscripts, they're just regular people and you hear it over and over. People living in a dead subsistence, devoid passion. It almost doesn't matter if they're Moldovan or Belarussian* Each represents their own provincial chaos and no these people are not Russians per se, so my broad brush is a little misplaced.

As far as Russia proper, there is a more acute, modern groundswell there, but not one that is willing to risk life to oppose Putin, yet at least. The younger generations essentially have no memory/nostalgia of USSR and more likely to be aware of global culture trends, perhaps they will become like the politically involved zoomers here in the US to oppose old thinking. And please, don't let me pretend to be an expert here, just conveying an experience of observations. I noticed the same videos popping up on YT as well, how the west created Putin, etc and I will explore those too after finishing Roshan's video recc.

With Ukraine, Putin is taking advantage of their own racism/separatism. Let's be honest, you don't want to be dark skinned in these areas., but it's a bit of straw-man narrative, Moscow is a racist/homophobic place too. I think his desire is elementary, the pride of re-establishing a former glory, him being of a generation that is desiring the past, creating a legacy as a figurehead in the history books. His own biographic history (from the vid recc so far) points toward an unfulfilled potential of wanting to be important in some way, a heart triad type of self importance/identity.

And I say that because there is less indication that Putey wants the region itself to be prosperous or well-adjusted. Feed that beast, the mother, the country. Freedom and autonomy don't appear high on the list of values. Then again, with what's happening now perhaps that does fit his framework, its just a question of perspectives.

In the interview I linked, Putin's biographer Masha Gessen discusses how one of the first things Putin did was reinstitute first aid (combat) training and how to clean and load a rifle in high school classes.

I can't find the image of the post card I stumbled upon around 2015 that made this city immediately captivate me. But captivate me it did, and although the secrets of its dark history emerged slowly, I quickly developed a peculiar resolve to go there one day, which was surprising because I'm no Russophile, mostly lost the travel bug years ago, and detest the cold.

I watched this documentary a couple of days ago. It's extremely well done. There is quite a bit of footage of the high school students learning (combat) first aid and how to clean and load a Kalashnikov.