Terra Incognita

Yes, at around 1: 13' I do think Destiny and Nick may be yelling and laughing at themselves.

At around 45 minutes Sargon already made his first attack and Destiny is answering very intelligently while shallowly, showing in concert with Hasan what I believe to be all the tragic flaws of delta, because I am now almost positive he's NeFi.

In so doing, he's also displaying very clearly what the two aspects of Ti are that I alluded to on the Rick Beato thread, saying people bandy them about without differentiating them from each other or either from Te clearly. I said we need to go back to this and as fate would have it, so we are.

The two aspects are 'web-spinning' and 'first principles'. Web-spinning is endlessly intricate and extensive and first principles is very simple and boiled down. So they are opposite but they are dialectic. One yields the other.

It's not that Destiny doesn't argue well and can't piece things together (not lacking in the skills of rhetoric). It's that the glue he pieces things together with is contingent and flimsy. Destiny simply does not process any T that isn't directly related to his goals. And it isn't even about ignoring it, like Hasan; it's instinctive. He just avoids it. So because he lacks both the intricacy and the extensivity of the web-spinning, he never HAS to confront first principles--underlyinging foundational rules of reality; he doesn't build a world view really complex enough to need them,. His world view is ultimately portable.

The silent face of the TiNe host throughout intently registering everything, far beyond what he would like to, doing the trigonometry of it, as it were, at lightning speed with multiple variables to expand the intricacy and extension of his view of it all is what Destiny is not . Not ultimately. As such the TiNe is able to crystallize, mediate, adjudicate or challenge at intervals, expeditious and seemingly unflappable.

While Destiny is a self-enclosed performative system, something like the Ice Capades. His mental moves are very well executed but they all skate and they never leave the rink. They're also all for an audience.

Destiny's Ne lead gives fancy footwork and lights to his highly developed Te tertiary, but he ultimately has no awareness of any logic that doesn't serve his own needs. Nothing goes beyond the boundaries of the rink. As such he lacks first principles because he never needs them, he can always skate those goal posts to another corner of his rink; as such he is ultimately unprincipled.

I wrote most of this post last night as a draft and since then I've looked into him more. (Yes, I know Anthony showed me him a long time ago). If he's not NeFi I'll eat my hat. And he and Hasan together really do reveal all the woebegone decay and pretty lights of modern delta extraverts so I shall have a good bit more to say about all this. Sargon is MLK by comparison--which is how I got here, anyway, wondering how Joshua would type Sargon in this video if he thinks MLK is INFJ.

So I have been approaching Te and Ti in the wrong way by asking things like, is trigonometry Ti or Te?

Trigonometry is T, an extensive and intricate T (with Si and I'm sure other componenents). But the T is T.

Destiny NeFi has very well developed Te (and also some found Si). If someone told Destiny they'll give him 20 million dollars after taxes to master trigonometry in a year he'd master trigonometry.

But Asmongold TiNe approaches things with the intricacy and extension, and with the mental precision and attention, required by trigonometry when he doesn't have to. He does so by default; it's his nature.

I think that's a much better way to approach the difference between Te and Ti than is trigonometry Te or Ti.

To be clear I already knew that T is T and you can't have one without the other but I was still operating on an assumption that certain T fields would lean so heavily to one orientation or the other that they would effectively 'be' that. But it's far more about the orientation of the person than the field. .

I'm currently at 1:04:58, and so far I agree with all of the typings here, and I definitely see what you mean with respect to Destiny's Ti PoLR. (Also Hasan is SUCH a 6, and he's like a somehow more 'puer' AND more 'beefcake' version of Orpho). I still haven't heard enough from Asmongold to say whether or not I agree with TiNe, but I don't see any reason to disagree yet, and if I had to choose any typing for him thus far it'd probably be that. As of yet, I'm not sure about Trainwreckstv either.

(This isn't CT, but it's because I was curious about this): I'm not really sure about their enneagram types either. Sargon, Hasan, and Destiny are E6, E6, and E3 as we already know. Fuentes so far seems like he might be a 7, Asmon clearly a 9, and Trainwreckstv probably a 9.

More on this when I'm done watching

I watched half the video and I agree with the typings (Except Nick, I can't get a read on him though). And I see the point with Ti polr types now.

I also like how Sargon is sitting and waiting for the right moves, and right interjections without trying much AND then gets the whole room's attention (esp from the 45 to 50min mark) while Hasan is very much overexerting himself defensively from the very beginning.

You can add my daughter to the fan club of Sargon

She was sitting near me while i was watching the video.
She remained silent for a while and then it went like this :
-Dad, what are they talking about ?
-Politics.
-Hmm, okay. Shrug.

She watched about five more minutes, then she just passed her judgement.
I didn't even prompt her.

-i don't like this one and this one, pointing at Destiny and Nick with a sweeping finger
-I like this one, he is strong, pointing at Asmongold.
-but... i think i prefer this one...he is a bit like you Dad, pointing at Sargon

And then she leaned forward and kissed Sargon on the screen.



Sounds like she can navigate the Culture Wars just fine already.

Anyway, i watched the first half now, up to the 5 minutes bathroom pause.
I'll reply and comment soon, then i'll watch the other half tonight.

Roshan wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:56 pm At around 45 minutes Sargon already made his first attack and Destiny is answering very intelligently while shallowly, showing in concert with Hasan what I believe to be all the tragic flaws of delta, because I am now almost positive he's NeFi.

In so doing, he's also displaying very clearly what the two aspects of Ti are that I alluded to on the Rick Beato thread, saying people bandy them about without differentiating them from each other or either from Te clearly. I said we need to go back to this and as fate would have it, so we are.

The two aspects are 'web-spinning' and 'first principles'. Web-spinning is endlessly intricate and extensive and first principles is very simple and boiled down. So they are opposite but they are dialectic. One yields the other.

It's not that Destiny doesn't argue well and can't piece things together (not lacking in the skills of rhetoric). It's that the glue he pieces things together with is contingent and flimsy. Destiny simply does not process any T that isn't directly related to his goals. And it isn't even about ignoring it, like Hasan; it's instinctive. He just avoids it. So because he lacks both the intricacy and the extensivity of the web-spinning, he never HAS to confront first principles--underlyinging foundational rules of reality; he doesn't build a world view really complex enough to need them,. His world view is ultimately portable.

Yes, i absolutely agree with this.
I'm pretty positive he is indeed NeFi
One of those intellectual/poltiical/philosophical contraries i find so frustrating to debate with.
They certainly argue very well, but in the end i always feel like the discussion is going nowhere.
It feels like they always start in the middle of the problem, and then they keep moving the goalposts without never moving backwards to the axioms, nor forwards to the nuances.
And i'm sure i'm equally as frustrating for them, for opposite reasons.

While Destiny is a self-enclosed performative system, something like the Ice Capades. His mental moves are very well executed but they all skate and they never leave the rink. They're also all for an audience.

Destiny's Ne lead gives fancy footwork and lights to his highly developed Te tertiary, but he ultimately has no awareness of any logic that doesn't serve his own needs. Nothing goes beyond the boundaries of the rink. As such he lacks first principles because he never needs them, he can always skate those goal posts to another corner of his rink; as such he is also ultimately unprincipled.

Yes indeed.
And to me it feels like he could argue as easily and as convincingly for the opposite side with the same level of authority and competency.
All it would take is another goal and another audience.

And it's really not just the fluidity of Ne frame. It's definitely Ti polr.
You never get quite the same impression from NeTi.

tbcd.

Roshan wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:56 pm The silent face of the TiNe host throughout intently registering everything, far beyond what he would like to, doing the trigonometry of it, as it were, at lightning speed with multiple variables to expand the intricacy and extension of his view of it all is what Destiny is not . Not ultimately. As such the TiNe is able to crystallize, mediate, adjudicate or challenge at intervals, expeditious and seemingly unflappable.

From what i knew about him, i was expecting him to do very well here, but so far he has been doing even better than i expected.
I agree it certainly has something to do with Sargon's supervising presence, but it's pretty impressive nonetheless.

Roshan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:18 pm Yes, at around 1: 13' I do think Destiny and Nick may be yelling and laughing at themselves.

There is definitely something going on with them and between them here.

And i can definitely see why you think he might also be NeFi.

But at this point, i'm still not sure about Nick's type.

The thing is, I have an immediate and pretty epidermic negative reaction to him.
But it's not the same one i get from my conflictors.
And it's not the same one i get from Destinity (which is neither immediate nor epidermic, nor that negative).
And it has nothing to do with his political leaning either.

I can't help but feel that there is something perverse about him.
Some twisted shadow Se at play.

My very first impression about his type, mostly based on his smirk, was SiFe in some degree of SeFi shadow, peacocking Ne and pretending to be NeTi.
But that doesn't hold up.
Actual introversion and Te polr both seems impossible.

And the more i see him interact with Hasan and Destiny, the more delta he seems.
The more i see him (try to) interact with Sargon, the more fake/shadow beta he seems too.

tbcd soon.