Sabby Sabs, Leftwing Activist

[Roshan]

My impression is she was building up to an Se crescendo but by naming the name of David Sirota she chickened out due to a combination of Ne PolR and Te inferior, because it would bring things to a whole NEw level that she would have to do someThingiE about, and she never truly recovered. I don't think it was due to the superchats and the several different topics that her energy became much more alphaized and dissipated (imo) in the latter part of the video.

And the moral of the story is: softpedaling is backpedaling for Ne PolR with Te inferior.

[Roshan]

She had it all tied together. She identified the unifying Ni trajectory. We need more regular people. That was the arrow coming from the bow. There was an arc.

But then she named David Sirota--a prominent valuable ally in these circles. it seems like she couldn't think on her feet enough to decide whether to say David Sirota does this too much, or David Sirota is better than most, or bring it on, David Sirota, or honestly I don't really know if David Sirota is particularly guilty of this but...

but she had to say something so she said 'somtimes' this is our problem as a kind of general disclaimer. Maybe I do maybe I don't think very highly of David Sirota.

And then she lost the clout, to such point that she asked that bizarre pseudo-rhetorical question with the trademark shrug, I'm not a cop but shouldn't the cop have found out whether he paid before he pushed him to the ground?

It seems to me she was aware that she threw her own game even though probably nobody else was and this was the cause of the shadowing behavior. I will have to watch it again but atm that's my impression. The first half, once she gets her feet wet she really seems Se creative, the second half she really does start to seem SiFe/FeSi. She became 'coy'.

[Roshan]

In my opinion the solution would have been to just let the arrow land.

Call out David Sirota. Let him be yoiur strawman and stand in for every tedious overeducated white journalist who ever deprived a home boy of a platform. Use him. Let him be your rhetorical device. This is our problem always. There is always a David Sirota doing exactly this.

It will be very effective and you will reach Te and have enough of your own energy left to explain right after that you don't specifically mean David Sirota, very important journalist, ally, and friend of the show.

* * *
Ne PolRs have to keep moving forward.

Ti frame can unignore the Te and keep the arc of the arrow.

What Sabby Sabs did was she unignored the Fe. Well SOMETIMES we have this urgent quintessential problem wink. And that will never work in situations like this. It will only lower the gravitas and efficacy overall. Because FeSi is coy.

And FiSe knows this, which just makes matters worse.

[-Sarah-]

Sabby is quicker than me in real time (or just in general) and that's because she has stronger Se than I do with me being a jumper. I looked at Roshan's time stops, and here's what I got:

At around 47'40"...

'and that is the problem sometimes that we have'.

No.

THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is THE problem! Omnipresent, always ready to strike!

If she were SeFi she would know she was building her case, and David Sirota talking about stop and frisk without the kid who was stopped and frisked should be the clincher and the 'I rest my case'.

Are you listening, David Sirota?

See?

Te agenda fulfilled.

Instead it's like she's apologizing for making the case we need more regular people to speak--sometimes we have this problem. Maybe it's because she named Sirota (an 'ally'), but by doing this she can't really move on to what's next. Soft-pedaling is back-pedaling.

Seems Ne PolR to me...especially after all that.

And so...ends with a huge shrug hands up in the air whattaya gonnado, says "I dunno",, and pulls up a superchat. Someone else will steer this somewhere.

Post by Roshan » Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:45 pm

My impression is she was building up to an Se crescendo but by naming the name of David Sirota she chickened out due to a combination of Ne PolR and Te inferior, because it would bring things to a whole NEw level that she would have to do someThingiE about, and she never truly recovered. I don't think it was due to the superchats and the several different topics that her energy became much more alphaized and dissipated (imo) in the latter part of the video.

And the moral of the story is: softpedaling is backpedaling for Ne PolR with Te inferior.

In my experience, the Ne Polr/Te inferior "hitting the wall and freeze" stem from two things: not being able to consider other possibilities and options and the other being paralyzed by too many possibilities and not being able to collapse everything. With second one, the problem of bringing things to a NEw level entails that would we have to do someThingiE about it, but we're stuck because that NEw level brings another slew of options and implications, and we can't act if we're not sure what direction to take and where to take it. Our folly is that we try to collapse everything at the same time and we (I) short-circuit or occasionally we revert to Ti role to meticulously and laboriously piece everything out.

Around 1:30' on police reform.

Can't be reformed. You got a lot of bad apples and a rotten tree. You gotta cut the tree down. That's how I see it. (Fi frame).

Fi frame = Te inferior.

What happens (procedurally) in between cutting down the tree and growing a new one?

I know what happens and I said this yesterday (more than once) in a different left libertarian channel's live chat.

You get a cop mayor in NYC whose candidacy was carried by the minority communities in the outer boroughs.

In socionics, ESI (FiSe) gets the reputation of being too preemptively judgmental without much consideration for other alternatives and Sabby's comment about the rotten tree reminded me of that. Her comment is also a good illustration of the Ne polr/Te inferior coupling and while I could possibly conceive of a FiNe making a similar comment in degree, it would be different in kind. It wouldn't be as cutting and slashing.

This comment and how she overall presents her ideas in this video is actually pretty similar to how I write. The subjects and content we explore are different, but the general form is about the same. A while back and I'm heavily paraphrasing here, Roshan mentioned that writing requires putting everything on the table and not leaving anything out. In my writing I may think I've covered my bases, but in reality I left a lot of stuff out and left some ideas unfinished. I'm too busy chiseling out what I do see and in the process I totally disregard or not even perceive what's outside my immediate line of vision. I think FiSe exhibits the paradox of being both too narrow and being unwittingly open-ended but we don't take that open-endedness further because we can't. And when we get really stuck, we end up deferring to others to fill in the blanks.

[Roshan]

This is pretty much what I was realizing in starting to work this out. There is a simultaneous problem of too many options and none. Because the problem is with "N". Everything stops at the third row.

And all the FiSe's I've known or 'studied' do what you and she do. They go to Fe and become overaccomodatingly coy and things get dissipated.

Jumper or no, you have to push through with Se. Remember, with Kiarostami and Forough Farrokhzad (TiSe and FiSe creative, I think), 'the wind will carry us'.

How that video could have ended: Sabby Sabs announces she is inviting the ordinary guy the cop pushed in the store onto the show. Just staying in the present would have ensured the future, but she let go of the thread she had right in her hand.



(select subtitles)

[Anthony]

Any inkling I had that she might be alpha was lost at 27:10 when she said,
”I’ve never been one of those people who’s like ‘Oh, I only wanna bring someone on here if they’re a theorist. Read this theory? Read this theory, man?’ Those people crack me up, by the way.”

She seems to instinctively grasp the pitfalls of the widespread academic tendency toward over-reliance on alpha-esque theorizing, and speaking as someone with an alpha quadra membership card, I can say we most certainly do not.
If she were indeed SiFe in complete shadow, and since she's involved in politics, I'd still find it difficult to imagine her instinctively cracking up at the prospect of "holding in high regard the consideration of theoretical sociopolitical changes due to increasing diversity in workplaces throughout the nation."
Even if she were SiFe and understood why it IS indeed ridiculous, she'd still excessively alpha-ize about it; she wouldn't have immediately resorted to,
"Well, if you were black and you were one of these token diversity hires, how would YOU feel? Can't we be realistic here?"
Now, of course, that's also just common sense, and even I understand that various things in life are only understandable once you've lived them(which is the argument Sabby was making). However, it is precisely her instinctive disdain for that sort of theorizing that makes it hard for me to see her as any kind of alpha. I also find it hard to imagine her as any kind of dual or activity partner, but when I imagine her as my superego, that seems exactly correct.

Also, yes, Roshan, Sabby is surprisingly energetically similar to Sarah despite their major Enneagrammatic and minor CT differences. I'm with FiSe creative for Sabby.

[Roshan]

Well, Sabby seems something like sx/SP 9w81w9-6w75w6-4w33w2, so very very very close to Lex, Mark 1 (leading with 6), Alanis... (EDIT 7/30/24 this was one of the worst E types I came up with off the cuff. She can't be [sx/sp] AND Four-fixed; she probably isn't either. I think it had to do with her being so self-referential but it really doesn't hold up. 2w1 fixed and [so/sx] or [sp/so] seem much more likely).

but I don't think it's that far from Sarah. It's still social last, 2w1 wormholes to 6w7 and has double line to 4, they all have 9 with movement to 1 and 8, and nobody has enough 7 to like spontaneously start juggling...

[Anthony]

She seems to instinctively grasp the pitfalls of the widespread academic tendency toward over-reliance on alpha-esque theorizing, and speaking as someone with an alpha quadra membership card, I can say we most certainly do not.
If she were indeed SiFe in complete shadow, and since she's involved in politics, I'd still find it difficult to imagine her instinctively cracking up at the prospect of "holding in high regard the consideration of theoretical sociopolitical changes due to increasing diversity in workplaces throughout the nation."
Even if she were SiFe and understood why it IS indeed ridiculous, she'd still excessively alpha-ize about it;

To clarify, I didn't mean that FiSe won't at times (or often, like Sarah) theorize and get academic. But with alpha quadra, such considerations are often disembodied—although their reasoning may begin with first principles, remaining cleanly logical and consistent throughout, they'll implicitly and accidentally highlight the misalignment between abstraction and life as is. This is when they get ridiculous, when, "it works, but only on paper."

[Anthony]

Well, Sabby seems something like sx/SP 9w81w9-6w75w6-4w33w2, so very very very close to Lex, Mark 1 (leading with 6), Alanis...

but I don't think it's that far from Sarah. It's still social last, 2w1 wormholes to 6w7 and has double line to 4, they all have 9 with movement to 1 and 8, and nobody has enough 7 to like spontaneously start juggling...

I had a very hard time telling whether or not she was 9w8(1w9) or 9w1(8w9), but with sx/SP it probably has to be 9w8...

(sx 9 is so dissociated from their aggression...I realized this recently when interacting with an Sp 9w1 and thought "if I hit this person right now, even though they're certainly no 8, they energetically communicate to me that they'd react and hit back, even if they actually wouldn't." With Sabby, it feels like if someone punched her, the punch would pass through her body and she wouldn't feel it)

[Roshan]

Yeah, she is not alpha quadra. Alpha starts with the premise that everyone has a place at the table; in extreme cases there is ostracism but mostly things are resolved by a ritual so the dream time begins a new cycle. Also your place at the table is kept precisely by theorizing and/or applauding theorizing and general banter. (Complex of closed mouth).

For her, you have to earn and keep your place at the table by actions .And this is why when she made that concession that this (big huge deal) is our problem sometimes, she imo forfeited the game and started to shadow.

She wasn't able to enforce the meritocracy and by implicitly saying this (big huge deal) could never be cause for ostracism, she ultimately did render her demands for concreteness themselves in some sense 'abstract'.

So in the end there is a 'campfire' aspect to this channel.