Terra Incognita

Roshan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:00 pm You seem to be implying she couldn't go 'beyond' beta though Vincent, and there is something to this. Most of the time Rose just seems permanently young, and in a way alpha is our childhood, beta is our youth, gamma is our adulthood, and delta is our maturity with risk of moving into second childhood (senility--though they don't see this about themselves at all). From that perspective, yes, if not beta Rose should go 'younger' quadra-wise. Except that we have That Nurse Ratched Thing to remind us that, no.

Yes, that sounds very true to me.

The thing is i never really considered any delta or gamma type for her.
That seemed out of question right from the start.
And you're right, i'm pretty sure that this impression has a lot to do with "quadra age".

She really seems like a beta extravert rebel teen to me. Sometimes caricaturally so.

Btw, when Catherine Deneuve commented negatively on #MeToo, Rose got in touch with some french feminist group and issued this
Hollywood isn't enough. The whole world is her Highschool.

Vincent wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:51 pm
She really seems like a beta extravert rebel teen to me. Sometimes caricaturally so.

Btw, when Catherine Deneuve commented negatively on #MeToo, Rose got in touch with some french feminist group and issued this
Hollywood isn't enough. The whole world is her Highschool.

Well, see..."tradition hasn't gotten us anywhere". What we need is a good revolution.

Beta is not an "Si user" quadra and authority is routinely and legitimately toppled by prowess in inflicting brute force. But Rose goes further; she's Si PolR. She doesn't even process how not to appear like she eschews all health and security concerns in inflicting this force. She seems reckless; what's missing is the 'prowess' part, which successful beta usurpers achieve through Ti--their own or their advisors'. (And to take advice may itself have some relationship to Si).

I was rewatching the Larry Elder endorsement speech (if you could even call it a speech). If it had been one-third the length--that's two-thirds shorter--and if she'd worked on it with people and stayed on script, it could have been effective. But I doubt there was a single person on the 'left', no matter how rogue they'd gone, who wasn't turned off by that speech. She probably turned more disgruntled people away from voting for Elder than she convinced. It was a bloodbath, and first and foremost because of her utter disregard for institutional protocols. In this context, 'protocols' are Si-related, not just Te, because they're about traditions. The problem was Larry Elder felt he had to let her keep yapping, and worse, later on, interrupting and hogging the stage. So he looked weak and she looked disrespectful of 'our' values, kind of like a reversible female Trump raincoat.But Trump is Si ignoring and actually played the 'tradition card' much better than she. It seems she really does not process Si in the sense of 'tradition'. Hers is a very sp/sx-y so/sp.

So you feel like if you were to vote for Elder, even crazier people than the Weinstein crowd would take over California.

I also think this deficit is often offset in gamma Si PolR by the Te lead, since both have to do with 'protocols'. And as I implied, in mature FeNi's they will find their Ti and/or take advice so they will be strategic about how their force comes across. Not Rose. Rose treats politics like she's starring in a bowling alley with no impulse control.

Roshan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:46 pm Beta is not an "Si user" quadra and authority is routinely and legitimately toppled by prowess in inflicting brute force. But Rose goes further; she's Si PolR. She doesn't even process how to get away with inflicting this force via appearing not to eschew all health and security concerns. She seems reckless; what's missing is the 'prowess' part, which successful beta usurpers achieve through Ti--their own or their advisors'. (And to take advice may itself have some relationship to Si).

Yes, that sounds completely right to me.
FeNis, especially, tend to be compulsive advice-givers and truly awful advice-takers, ime.

I was rewatching the Larry Elder endorsement speech (if you could even call it a speech). If it had been one-third the length--that's two-thirds shorter--and if she'd worked on it with people and stayed on script, it could have been effective. But I doubt there was a single person on the 'left', no matter how rogue they'd gone, who wasn't turned off by that speech. She probably turned more disgruntled people away from voting for Elder than she convinced. It was a bloodbath, and first and foremost because of her utter disregard for institutional protocols. In this context, 'protocols' are Si-related, not just Te, because they're about traditions. The problem was Larry Elder felt he had to let her keep yapping, and worse, later on, interrupting and hogging the stage. So he looked weak and she looked disrespectful of 'our' values, kind of like a reversible female Trump raincoat.But Trump is Si ignoring and actually played the 'tradition card' much better than she. It seems she really does not process Si in the sense of 'tradition'. Hers is a very sp/sx-y so/sp.

So you feel like if you were to vote for Elder, even crazier people than the Weinstein crowd would take over California.

Yes indeed.
Weinstein and his crowd become the proverbial "devil you know", in comparison.

Btw, the youtube channel that published the video i posted above is a pretty popular one here, with over a million suscribers.
Rose's video, which was posted almost 4 years ago, has only 4k views and 143 likes.
This too, has something to do with Si polr.
That's definitely not how you conquer the french public.

I will rewatch the video with Larry Elder soon. (want to finish Nick's one first)

tbcd.

Yes, speaking of Nick, I did feel I needed to bring him up here.So why did I say Rose isn't smarmy enough to be FeSi when Nick is obviously so very smarmy? Well, he is but not in the FeSi way.

What's smarmy about all but really healthy FeSi to me (as their conflictor) is how personal their manipulations are. Si tool from Fe wants you personally for their agenda; FeNi sees you as part of their greater mission--you could be vaporized tomorrow, by the elements, the enemy or them; they will replace you. So they are more likely to be zealots and ultimately transpersonal, while FeSi manipulations are personal and petty.

Nick is his own thing. He feels smarmy because he keeps jumping over Ni (and losing Se), but that he frames things in this comedic routine (which seems to be because he jumps Ni and doesn't trust his Se) still prevents it from feeling personally manipulative. Basically, the analogy of beta and steppe nomads is a good one, and you do get the sense with betas that their eyes are on the horizon more than on you. So with FeNi you get more maniacs but with FeSi you get more babysitters. And since we're adults the latter to me feels smarmy. But probably there is a better term for it, such as "disingenuously coddling".

Whatever Nick Fuentes is--and both used car salesman and Hitler have been mentioned--it isn't coddling. I guess it says more about me than about FeSi that I happen to find manipulative coddling to be the apex of smarm.

Roshan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:06 pm So with FeNi you get more. maniacs but with FeSi you get more babysitters.

I will just add that when FeSi goes full shadow you can get a maniac babysitter, but even with a hatchet it's still personal and petty; there is no mission but pointlessness itself, and from what I gather it may be directed at an actual baby.

Here's another Rose McGowan interview from (presumably) the late 90s, to compare with the first video posted here, the one with Roseanne Barr. What is, or isn't, sx last about it? The issue is when the materials are available you have to establish a base line, from before stacks had time to move, before curated image had time to seep into the bone marrow, etc. Rose was already in her mid-forties when she emerged at the center of MeToo. She's pushing 50 when she endorses Elder.



And also this. Just what was this and was it something an sx first would have been likely to do--or even an sp/sx (sp/sx 2w3 being, it turns out, a typing that pops up for her on the Net), given all that she didn't do iykwim.

-Sarah- wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:12 am

I want to make sure people know that when I kept referring to this as Rose's Nurse Ratched video, I was talking about the original Ratched in the 1975 Hollywood film version of the novel One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest.



(Not a recent made for tv series that tries to 'humanize' the character on grounds the novelist, director and character in the film were all misogynist, which was met in turn by claims the humanization was itself a form of misogyny, you get the picture... ).

Also do check out the early interview in the post before this one; we'll be coming back to this stacking issue of Rose's (but for now the CasT of charaCTers in Shapiro Endless Family Haggadah Theater is so extensive, we can certainly wait). Question though for later: is it as easy to see the sx last in the one above as at least I feel it is in the OP one? And what about that famous dress of hers I linked in the above post? When I asked if sx first or sp/sx would be likely to wear that and what was that really, I hadn't even read the article but...you'll see.

* * *
I had several teachers just like '75 Ratched. KEEP RATCHED MEAN!

I think it was last summer after seeing that movie, I typed Nurse Ratched so/SP-->sp/sx 2w1 w/ 6w5 and 9w1. I would say Rose and the character seem equally Sx last, and the fact that I personally had typed her So/Sx probably highlights [in part] the sort of..."higher Sx people are less likely to dress normally...or whatever" bad reasoning.

Anthony wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:51 am I would say Rose and the character seem equally Sx last

Ya think in the recently posted old interview--wearing orange shirt--she and Ratched seem equally sx last? (I know in the Rose Ratched video half the time she might just as well be playing her).

Also yes, you and I talked about Ratched '75 and that's how you typed her. iirc that came out of your asking on EF what social first Twos would be like since we were focusing so much about sp and sx, and you brought up Ratched.