Terra Incognita

So we should probably hold off on even discussing it until we see whether you're more focused once those treatments have started to set in.

e-ssam

More about Allie's Si, and more specifically his relationship with stories :

Before he talks about stories of "banal apocalypse" and tells us the deep shit we are in with that adorable grin, he opens up by talking about Stanger Things, which he presents as a story of our time.

And well, that doesn't really add up.
Stranger Things is neither about apocalypse nor about banality. It's all about the irruption of the Unheimlich in Nostalgialaland.

The stories he is talking about are polar opposite in some ways, and he doesn't seem to process the contradiction.
If he had a point there, he never collapsed it and didn't really make it.

At this point, i still don't really understand what his problem with postmodernism actually is. On some level he seems actually pretty happy with the over-abundance of "post-truth" stories and the lack of big broadcasted narratives. It almost feels like his main issue with postmodernism is that he just want something even NEwer.

It's not that he doesn't understand nostalgia, or the need for roots, or the importance of narratives. It's just that he is already moving toward something else anyway.

And that's often the things with jumpers. It's not that they don't notice or understand when there is an issue with their auxiliary function. They do, and they could talk about it all day long.
It's that it's still not enough for them to really make it their problem, which is what creative subtype people (or even polr people, as canary in the coal mine) would do.

tbcd.

Vincent, I don't really understand why you're talking about him not collapsing his point as part of talking about his being a jumper, especially since you end by talking about how PolR canary in the coalmine does....what? Does the jumper's second slot function better than the jumper?

Well,i intended to make a follow up post last night to clarify and tie things together, but i conked out before i was done writing it;
I will write it tonight after work.
tbcd.

On another note, thanks to all the talk about Allie as FeNe, I came to the understanding after I posted John Iadarola of TYT than Cenk Uyghur is FeSe.

So he's Ana's superego and Iadarola's kindred, while Ana and Iadarola are business partners. This makes a lot of sense because Ana and Cenk, after all these years, just don't socialize. They don't see each other outside of the studio. Ever. And in this new video below from the Ne Vanguard kindreds Gavin and Zack, you can see their superego relationship is fraying badly now that TYT has lost so much standing in the progressive vlogosphere.

Actually imho everyone in the video is missing the point--Ana shrieking, Cenk unctuously placating her; Gavin and Zack and most of their commenters annotating the shrieking and placating with groan-inducing footnotes....Nobody over there in the Polish larping campgrounds is making fun of anyone. They are just trying to understand us over here in America. I find it heartwarming.

Shit Ni and Fi all around, up and down the sewer wazoo. wft. How much of this is ct's fault and how much is just what ideology does to people? I posted there: "Call a surgeon, he'll use a knife. Call an ideology, you'll lose your sense of humor."

What about Zack's Fi though? It seems HE does a bit of jumping TOO to 'get to' Te by pushing out Fe at the expense of Fi ('all us workers of the world in solidarity always'), because he's made his cognitive agenda synonymous with a political one. Interestingly, he seems to be another triple attached like Allie so maybe jumping goes with spinning in these cases?

Here is the article all were quoting from: https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5vpbx/ ... erica-ohio I feel like anyone who doesn't fall in love at first sight at least a LITTLE with those Polish larpers is missing out on life.

Sorry if I seem to be off-topic but I think the issues raised about the use of functions and slots in this somewhat deranged video can shed light on the topic at hand.

This leads to the 'canary in the coal mine' Fe PolR issue too.

These trailer park people in the Midwest are EXACTLY the demographic that got Trump in. These Polish 'larpers' are doing a shit ton of research and investing a shit ton of time, effort and also some real money into this 'game'. They are exploring 'what's essential' in the global hellscape. They're not jumping over, ignoring, or not processing Ni or Fi.

Now I myself probably cared a LOT less about what those Trump voters cared so much about than my old friends, which is basically God and country--being that alpha/delta 'hands around the planet' is just the global version of God and country. In fact I cared so little about all that that I could be objective enough to understand what they cared about and why, and why they felt disenfranchised enough to rally behind a person like Trump, who I would never vote for even if he espoused every single one of my policy positions vehemently.

I was able to completely understand the Fe of 'the other side' when 'we' lost because of my ultimate indifference to Fe. I was 'the canary in the coal mine' and still am.

Roshan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:04 pm Vincent, I don't really understand why you're talking about him not collapsing his point as part of talking about his being a jumper, especially since you end by talking about how PolR canary in the coalmine does....what? Does the second slot better than jumpers?

Okay so, to try to clarify a bit :
I felt this specific non-collapsing about stories and postmodernity was relevant because I don't think it would have happened at all if Aliie wasn't a jumper.

I mean, most regular non-jumping and non-creative FeSi really are just happy with postmodernity and the over-abundance of meaningless stories. Some of them are actually among the main vectors of that specific disease. A few are even actively working on queering mathematics as we speak.
So they would be unlikely to express the kind of negativity toward Si Allie is expressing here. They would not even try to make the point Allie is trying to make, and they wouldn't even come close to putting themselves in the position of not collapsing it.

The thing is unlike them, Allie does know that there is something very wrong with contemporary Si, something that can't be just expediently fixed. And in that regard, he is a bit similar to Si polr canary in the coalmine, but unlike polr people, Allie doesn't really feel it. He doesn't personally suffer from it, because unlike Gad Saad or Peterson, he isn't trapped in any mine, he has already moved toward Ne.

I wasn't trying to say that polr people do the second slot better than jumpers do. My point was that their negativity toward it is very real, while the negativity expressed by jumpers seems somehow disconnected, in a way that is relatively independent of their competency with the function and goes beyond mere expediency.

I might very well be wrong but i do suspect that this particular disconnection is pretty typical of jumpers, and might be characteristic of the configuration.

It's certainly true for me at least. As a jumper over Fe, i could talk about Fe candy and bitch about low alpha everywhere all day, but i'm definitely no canary in the coalmine here. I'm always already sTrategIzing and TheorIzing about it...

Anyway, i have to go for now, ,i will catch up with the thread soon, and i will try to elaborate more about this later.

Vincent wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:49 am
It certainly true Vincent sentence structure for me at least. As a jumper over Fe, i could talk about Fe candy and bitch about low alpha everywhere all day, but i'm definitely no canary in the coalmine here. I'm always already sTrategIzing and TheorIzing about it...

So how do you suppose you'd be different in this vein if you were a non-jumping NiFe? How would you show your 'canary in the coal mine' Te?

Roshan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:14 pm So how do you suppose you'd be different in this vein if you were a non-jumping NiFe? How would you show your 'canary in the coal mine' Te?

Well, i wasn't really talking about Te here, but about Fe. My point was just that whatever my issue with "bad Fe" are, i don't experience them the way you and Fe polr people do. Not even close.

But yeah, i suspect it also applies to Te and that you might be right that jumpers are no canary in the coal mine at all, because of how strong the magnetic pull of the agenda can be.

I don't really know how that would be different if i wasn't a jumper. Maybe when i was younger i would have fought for Mother Nature in some concrete and collective way instead of writing essays about the derives of anthropocentrism.
One thing i suspect is that i probably wouldn't hate supervising my supervisees as much as i do. So maybe i would have actually got into politics and tried to help a few alpha kids move the moribund Delta Machine toward high alpha.
I'll have to think more about this.