Ben Shapiro family is growing

[Roshan]

The way to debate Nick would be for someone ct-compatible of equal or greater intelligence who he was favorably disposed to and shared some views with, like Styx, to restate Nick's points until he agreed that they were properly restated and then point out when he was contradicting himself.

That should take up most of the debate.

But Styx used a tactic of intentionally mischaracterizing his main (high school schoolyard) point about geopolitical power so he would fall into the bear trap of howling that he's pro-authoritarian with the stick in his paw, thus revealing (collapsing) the essence of what, in Styx's opinion, really mattered.

Why? Nick is going to be exposed anyway but to whom? You can check that the comments are split when Styx should have clearly won this debate. Groypers were not blind to Styx's gambit.

[Vincent]

Something is wrong here. The crux of the actual debate matter (imo) doesn't come up until 1:10'03" -18". "We" can't get the "hard power" we need according to Nick because China is what produces all the decadent shit we consume, Styx finally points out. (Don't know if he'll point out that our jobs went there too). This is the first problem with wanting China to ascend. This economic symbiosis is the source of our decay. Why did it take so long to get here? Is it because Styx came in with the idea that to say anything not negative about China was 'wrong' so he was being Nick's shadow superego?

Yes, it's really striking that it took them so long to say anything about this at all.
And also that they both were so fast to get out of it.

I'm sure you're right that it has something to do with Styx being Nick's shadow superego.

But to me it also sounds like the nationalist and the libertarian were both tacitly agreeing to not say anything that would get them to close to "leftist territory". As if capitalism, class and labor were taboo. Off limit.

And i think it has something to do with Styx being Ne polr, and Nick demonstrating very little Ne 6th.
Right from the start, Nick talks about american vs chinese regimes.
And he keeps repeating that word and sticking to that very narrow frame.
And Styx never really try to "broaden" it.

tbcd.

[Roshan]

But to me it also sounds like the nationalist and the libertarian were both tacitly agreeing to not say anything that would get them to close to "leftist territory". As if capitalism, class and labor were taboo. Off limit.

Right, and that's at least part of what makes the whole thing a spat between lovebirds and at the end they renew their dual vows.

And i think it has something to do with Styx being Ne polr, and Nick demonstrating very little Ne 6th.
Right from the start, Nick talks about american vs chinese regimes.

And he keeps repeating that word and sticking to that very narrow frame.

hmmm...I think in part it's because Nick's relationship to these regimes (victim of one with the other potential savior) is the 'bad thing' Nick, having given up his power (so now Se PolR and Fi self-absorbed), must be superego'd for. Which is where that zinger about Nick being a 'rugged individualist' came from, which was quite good, but then Styx actually found too much Fe. He got a bit kumbaya there (why don't we all just join hands around the planet, Nick?) You could say Fe became Styx's role.

And this is in part because Styx isn't healthy enough to just superego a fallen Nick. He's going to fall down too...and remain his dual.

And Styx never really try to "broaden" it.

Not healthy enough for PolR as Power. So ultimately Nick dreamt up a romantic fin de la race savior galloping across the moor on a white horse, while Styx rooted for process, progress, teamwork, and protocols for the betterment of the system. Both were deltas in a way. It was odd.
tbcd.

[Vincent]

But Styx used a tactic of intentionally mischaracterizing his main (high school schoolyard) point about geopolitical power so he would fall into the bear trap of howling that he's pro-authoritarian with the stick in his paw, thus revealing (collapsing) the essence of what, in Styx's opinion, really mattered.

Yes indeed.

And the thing is, i'm not even sure Nick was hiding his authoritarian side that much to begin with.
I mean, it took more than one hour of systematic misreading to set up his trap and get Nick to walk on it.
But he pretty much exposes himself at the 1h35 mark. All it took was for a viewer to asks him "would you look the other way if China invaded America ?".

And i really don't think his authoritarian side was the most important thing to expose here anyway.

it's not trivial for example that Nick, on some basic level, just want "chaos and disruption".
But that too had to comes from the Q&A, not from the debate.
And when Nick exposed that, Styx glanced over it and just restated his "power to the people" motto.

Why? Nick is going to be exposed anyway but to whom? You can check that the comments are split when Styx should have clearly won this debate. Groypers were not blind to Styx's gambit.

They sure were not yes.
And there is also quite a few reactions of people saying things like "i don't even agree with Nick but Styx was annoying".
or "I agree with Styx but he didn't do that well".
It seems he disappointed some of his own followers, and i can easily understand why.
There is something quite non-beta in the way Styx fought (and didn't really fought) this.

edit : post crossed, reading up.

[Roshan]

There is something quite non-beta....

edit : post crossed, reading up.

As you should, Kemosabe. As you should.

[Vincent]

hmmm...I think in part it's because Nick's relationship to these regimes (victim of one with the other potential savior) is the 'bad thing' Nick, having given up his power (so now Se PolR and Fi self-absorbed), must be superego'd for. Which is where that zinger about Nick being a 'rugged individualist' came from, which was quite good, but then Styx actually found too much Fe. He got a bit kumbaya there (why don't we all just join hands around the planet, Nick?) You could say Fe became Styx's role.

And this is in part because Styx isn't healthy enough to just superego a fallen Nick. He's going to fall down too...and remain his dual.

And Styx never really try to "broaden" it.

Not healthy enough for PolR as Power. So ultimately Nick dreamt up a romantic fin de la race savior galloping across the moor on a white horse, while Styx rooted for process, progress, teamwork, and protocols for the betterment of the system. Both were deltas in a way. It was odd.
tbcd.

Yes, that sounds absolutely right to me.
It struck me more that Styx was going delta than it did for Nick.
I guess because he was becoming more and more my conflictor during the debate.
But you're definitely right that they were both moving into shadow duality.
And yeah, it was pretty odd indeed.

[Roshan]

Nick is always in and out of shadow Vincent. Always.

Why else even have a comedy schtick?

It's his 'safe space' when he can't find his Se.

When in doubt there is always art.

[Roshan]

Not that he actually used the comedy schtick with Styx, because he thought there was going to be a more direct debate.

Just that he is always, always, always in and out of shadow.

[Roshan]

And that is why my impulse is to rescue him and bring him to the vet to get the stick removed from his paw.

[Vincent]

And that is why my impulse is to rescue him and bring him to the vet to get the stick removed from his paw.

Well, so far, his fellow betas have been keeping him in shadow (and in Styx's case going there with him) rather than helping him find his way out of it, and back in beta.
And it's really disappointing indeed.