Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz (SeFi/SiFe Extinguishers)

[Roshan]

It's impossible to understate the impact their tv show had on American life in the early days of television or the impact their studio had on the further development of tv (for instance Desilu Studios started 'Star Trek'), but they appear to have been contraries, SeFi and SiFe extingusihers. The way this usually works is that the introvert feels extinguished by the extravert in the presence of third parties and retaliates by actually extinguishing the extravert. Lucy was always better known than Desi, even though it was the tv show that made her an A list star and also it was mostly Desi who was the brains behind the studio. He seems to have been unable to adapt to her getting more public attention and retaliated by womanizing and drinking (with angry fits). I know alcoholism is an illness and there were other factors at play but I also think their ct dynamic doomed them to bring each other down due to the presence of the third party--"the public". The charisma between them was unparalleled, sparks positive and negative. People who were there say the sparks flew from the first moment they met on a movie set, and after their divorce--after twenty largely unhappy years of marriage except for the beginning--they both remarried but remained in touch and apparently in love until death.

[Roshan]

Interestingly they also seem to have 'opposed' Enneagram types, with her being 278 (I think 8 leading though may be 7) and him being 639. And there seems to have been very little of let's call it the 'temperance axis' (1/5). I suppose this enabled their mass appeal and ability to function apparently seamlessly in that industry, but didn't help them to stabilize their relationship. They may have also both been sp last, and with very little in 'the Hole', they weren't equipped to deal with 'shadow material' but to be 'America's sweethearts' on the surface.

[Roshan]

Disclaimer: This thread has nothing nothing nothing to do with or was in any way inspired by an Amazon film made last year called Being the RIcardos that I was dimly aware existed, then forgot. It came out of my looking for a 278 exemplar for the Tritypes section. Nicole Kidman sounds like a terrible choice for Lucille Ball.

ps I just watched the trailer. I don't know why this film exists.

[Roshan]

Some good more casual footage here.

[Jonathan]

I always assumed Lucy to be the historically described 7w8 female, sorta like a Joan Rivers, but different instincts. Cubans, Ricky included, are typically extra-attachment, beyond the types. Mi familia, classic gender roles, etc. It was never going to work bc nothing was ever going to work with a Lucy, apart from being a pin cushion to support the manic nature of having it their way.

[Roshan]

I always assumed Lucy to be the historically described 7w8 female, sorta like a Joan Rivers, but different instincts.

You're probably right. I thought she was 7w8 until I started looking at her more closely but that must be due to 8 fix, 2 line to 8 and not unlikely [sx/so] stacking.

But are you aware there's a Joan Rivers thread up, Jonathan? I moved it to the private Enneagram section but you should be able to access it.

[Jonathan]

You'll have to forgive me for not knowing such a thread existed, as you know I travel for my job and it's been a busy couple weeks. I skim then shoot from the hip, bc that's the time afforded

[Vincent]

You'll have to forgive me for not knowing such a thread existed, as you know I travel for my job and it's been a busy couple weeks. I skim then shoot from the hip, bc that's the time afforded

Well, i understand that afforded time can be short sometimes, but...this board really isn't made for "shooting from the hip". Of course, members will sometime be very busy and their participation will become more intermittent but even then we expect people to not jump in too casually and to check active threads first.

To access that list, click on "Quick Links" at the top left of any board page, then click on "Active topics".

There aren't that many of them at the moment btw.

Anyway, about Joan Rivers and her E-type...i suggest that you start with this 1966 interview and that you let us know what you think there.

[Vincent]

Now about Lucille and Desi, i watched the videos and at this point i'm pretty positive that Roshan is right about their types and about their doomed extinguishing dynamic.

Them being contraries does make a LOT of sense and it certainly sounds like a lot of the failure has to do with Desi's Te polr, making him ultimately unable to sustain the empire he created.
Lucille pretty much nails it when she says that "he had to lose". And he pretty much confirms it when he so absurdly says that he was "just a prop".

[Jonathan]

You'll have to forgive me for not knowing such a thread existed, as you know I travel for my job and it's been a busy couple weeks. I skim then shoot from the hip, bc that's the time afforded

Well, i understand that afforded time can be short sometimes, but...this board really isn't made for "shooting from the hip". Of course, members will sometime be very busy and their participation will become more intermittent but even then we expect people to not jump in too casually and to check active threads first.

To access that list, click on "Quick Links" at the top left of any board page, then click on "Active topics".

There aren't that many of them at the moment btw.

Anyway, about Joan Rivers and her E-type...i suggest that you start with this 1966 interview and that you let us know what you think there.

I think my problem is that celebs aren't interesting enough for me, and I react to things I don't like... and it's definitely my problem to deal with. I'll try to abstain. I don't want my participation here to be something I'm always apologizing for, and just save it for when there is an earnest investment.