I thiiiiink s/he is on the missing link of how delta d/evolutes, and may be one of the geekish FiNe's. She got into satellite communications because of an epiphany she had in Seychelles, but s/he branched out into transgenderism and transhumanism (and other areas) by the time she was 40, arming herself with accreditation and expertise to change the legal system globally, and in 'her' long and storied history, s/he makes the connection between the two transes explicitly and loudly. btw I'm right not to settle on the gender since s/he now says s/he constantly oscillates between feeling male and feeling female but whatever, 'she's the highest paid female CEO in America'.
'Her' whole thing with transhumanism seems to have a LOT to do with just not wanting to be in a body, so part of why I suggest Se polr beyond base energetics. But it also seems to have to do with 'her' child becoming sick with a deadly illness--which progress s/he has thus far been able to arrest by creating a foundation, getting rights to unused medicines, and more. She is nothing if not resourceful. I could go on. Best to watch, and also to read the two articles on 'her' below. One is gushingly adulatory and one completely adversarial, and that seems to pretty much cover the range of opinions on M. Rothblatt in the public domain.
Martin/e Rothblatt
Martin/e Rothblatt
Last edited by Roshan on Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Martin/e Rothblatt
There was also a gushing article on her in the very popular New York Magazine in fall of 2014, referenced at the beginning of the OP video. This interestingly was a half year before Caitlyn Jenner rocked our world and magazine covers. And the rest is herstory, stunning and brave. How well I remember my working class life-long liberal friend in a purple state whose family lost all their money in 2008 saying, yeah I voted for Trump, because all the media was talking about 24/7 was the trans bathrooms. And Trump has certainly left his imprimatur. An attempt at understanding all this is necessary.
Well aren't you just stunning and brave, Roshanak Eukaria D'Omani?
Well aren't you just stunning and brave, Roshanak Eukaria D'Omani?
Last edited by Roshan on Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Martin/e Rothblatt
S/he feels every person as a unique valuable individual should have the right to extend their physical life for as long as they want (hence the pig organ transplant enterprise, gene tweak by gene tweak) and this segways seamlessly into uploading your consciousness, and then these uploads will have their own life. There are just no boundaries to it in 'her' mind, despite 'her' hat tips to the procedural protocols in the video, with each individual step being an achievement in and of itself.
I feel like this is easily an embarrassment of riches of Ne (creative subtype) boundary hopping for the sake of preservation of 'life itself' (Si), coming from a base framework of 'unique value' for all (Fi), with, perhaps more than Te seeking, a Te pipeline. And yet the sense of what it really means to be embodied and why it matters, other than that we're all unique and diverse like different beautiful flowers, is just not there. After all, why upload your consciousness if there are already so many different flowers in a continuous evolving stream ? The real mattering in the embodied moment would be Se, and for it TO matter it has to have an end, which is the Ni in its back pocket. This is what makes the stakes high. Martin/e wants to preserve life at all costs and to do away with its stakes.
Everything on the Philly cheese steak including the hero. Everything but the meat.
I feel like this is easily an embarrassment of riches of Ne (creative subtype) boundary hopping for the sake of preservation of 'life itself' (Si), coming from a base framework of 'unique value' for all (Fi), with, perhaps more than Te seeking, a Te pipeline. And yet the sense of what it really means to be embodied and why it matters, other than that we're all unique and diverse like different beautiful flowers, is just not there. After all, why upload your consciousness if there are already so many different flowers in a continuous evolving stream ? The real mattering in the embodied moment would be Se, and for it TO matter it has to have an end, which is the Ni in its back pocket. This is what makes the stakes high. Martin/e wants to preserve life at all costs and to do away with its stakes.
Everything on the Philly cheese steak including the hero. Everything but the meat.
Last edited by Roshan on Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:04 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Anthony
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Re: Martin/e Rothblatt
A lesson from her supervisee, in this case, would definitely do her well.After all, why not upload your consciousness if there are already so many different flowers in a continuous evolving stream ? The real mattering in the embodied moment would be Se, and for it TO matter it has to have an end, which is the Ni in its back pocket.
"Folks, we live in a very spooky-style world. No one's gonna do it for you, but all you have to do is take that first step, reach for that sweet, sweet fruit, and make nothing else you ever do ever matter."
Last edited by Anthony on Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:56 am, edited 4 times in total.
Re: Martin/e Rothblatt
I'm not 100% sure Rothblatt isn't another delta, meaning either the inverse of FiNe creative with a pipeline, meaning TeSi, or NeFi creative--though any T PolR seems unlikely. (Outside of delta, only alpha seems even possible and nothing fits). Here is another view:
Last edited by Roshan on Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Anthony
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Re: Martin/e Rothblatt
@ 6:40-13:30, starting at "Is the mind clone of Martine the same as Martine?",
It's hard for me to even know where to begin with 'her.'
Sure—social media, video surveillance, etc., are useful ways to amass concrete information about ourselves. It also seems likely that with concrete, observable information, and with enough of it, it's theoretically possible to make accurate inferences about our tendencies and motivations, and eventually engineer seemingly indistinguishable cyber-simulacrums of our 'flesh-bound' minds—that is, if the mind clone continually amasses information and updates itself over time. With enough [of the right] information and especially fancy programming, we can artificially simulate what superficially appears like a human experience, and further, mitigate potential conflict with mind clones in the manner Martin/e described.
The problem here, however, is that in order accomplish such a thing—in order to engineer genuinely indistinguishable cyber-simulacrums of our 'flesh-bound' minds that can properly supplant our own—the mind clones need to also incorporate the fact that, like us, they will die. If they can't do that—incorporate the fact of their (our) death AND actually face it in the way that we do (lest they learn, over time, that they won't die, or at least won't die at all quickly)—then they necessarily cannot properly supplant our own minds, since the state of our entire consciousness, our human experience, our basic mental contents, etc., depends on the very fact of our death.
Ultimately, in looking at 'her,' I can't help but be reminded of my own [largely vain] iteration of "immortality will solve all of my problems"—a consequence of failing to fully recognize and 'embrace' my here-and-now corporeal experience (my existence in concrete space and time) accompanied by a terror of natural forces (the impact of the potential shape they take) and thus of death, complete death—not only of my 'flesh-bound' consciousness but its traces, its 'simulacrum,' as well.
It's as if the stakes themselves hinder my ability to fulfill internal desires that exist only because there are, indeed, stakes. It seems like Martin/e is making the same fundamental error in 'her' apparent quest to ‘cheat death.’
I don't think s/he's alpha, and it^ really, really seems Se PoLR, but...I'm not totally sure.
I understand why T PoLR seems unlikely, but at the moment, I'm stuck wondering whether the whole "we're all unique like different beautiful flowers and we need to foster our oneness within this" thing could actually be Ne frame with Fe demonstrative and Si seeking, or just shadow Fe 5th. To some extent, s/he really just seems to be in utter awe of the idea of having mind clones, as if s/he's inclined primarily to see it as a novel phenomenon and the whole 'death' part of the equation just isn't something s/he was THAT attentive to and didn't fully think through.
tbcd
I will rewatch the first interview and watch the second one.
It's hard for me to even know where to begin with 'her.'
Sure—social media, video surveillance, etc., are useful ways to amass concrete information about ourselves. It also seems likely that with concrete, observable information, and with enough of it, it's theoretically possible to make accurate inferences about our tendencies and motivations, and eventually engineer seemingly indistinguishable cyber-simulacrums of our 'flesh-bound' minds—that is, if the mind clone continually amasses information and updates itself over time. With enough [of the right] information and especially fancy programming, we can artificially simulate what superficially appears like a human experience, and further, mitigate potential conflict with mind clones in the manner Martin/e described.
The problem here, however, is that in order accomplish such a thing—in order to engineer genuinely indistinguishable cyber-simulacrums of our 'flesh-bound' minds that can properly supplant our own—the mind clones need to also incorporate the fact that, like us, they will die. If they can't do that—incorporate the fact of their (our) death AND actually face it in the way that we do (lest they learn, over time, that they won't die, or at least won't die at all quickly)—then they necessarily cannot properly supplant our own minds, since the state of our entire consciousness, our human experience, our basic mental contents, etc., depends on the very fact of our death.
Ultimately, in looking at 'her,' I can't help but be reminded of my own [largely vain] iteration of "immortality will solve all of my problems"—a consequence of failing to fully recognize and 'embrace' my here-and-now corporeal experience (my existence in concrete space and time) accompanied by a terror of natural forces (the impact of the potential shape they take) and thus of death, complete death—not only of my 'flesh-bound' consciousness but its traces, its 'simulacrum,' as well.
It's as if the stakes themselves hinder my ability to fulfill internal desires that exist only because there are, indeed, stakes. It seems like Martin/e is making the same fundamental error in 'her' apparent quest to ‘cheat death.’
I don't think s/he's alpha, and it^ really, really seems Se PoLR, but...I'm not totally sure.
I understand why T PoLR seems unlikely, but at the moment, I'm stuck wondering whether the whole "we're all unique like different beautiful flowers and we need to foster our oneness within this" thing could actually be Ne frame with Fe demonstrative and Si seeking, or just shadow Fe 5th. To some extent, s/he really just seems to be in utter awe of the idea of having mind clones, as if s/he's inclined primarily to see it as a novel phenomenon and the whole 'death' part of the equation just isn't something s/he was THAT attentive to and didn't fully think through.
tbcd
I will rewatch the first interview and watch the second one.
Last edited by Anthony on Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:21 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Vincent
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Re: Martin/e Rothblatt
Yes indeed, i absolutely agree !
There is definitely something going on with her relationship with death, and also, and that's closely related, with her (non-)definition of what constitutes a Self, and what is or isn't a "being" at all.
S/he is definitely as Delta as it gets. In many ways she might actually be the Delta i was looking for two decades ago when i was studying philosophy in university and trying to understand the Machine and the Empire.
At this point (i'm not done with the last video yet) i'm still going back and forth between FiNe and TeSi, with NeFi as a more distant third option. I'll finish that video tonight, and then rewatch the first one to get timestamps.
tbcd.
Last edited by Vincent on Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Martin/e Rothblatt
Despite the undeniable impression of FiNe energetics, a cursory gleaning of this article so far makes it not hard at all to consider creative subtype ESTJ field marshal with a massive Fi pipeline for M. Rothblatt...
tbcd
tbcd