John Vervaeke

[e-ssam]

John Veraeveke is a cognitive scientist who is working on integrating traditionalist (neo-platonism in particular) cosmology and cognitive science to help solve the meaning crisis.

Very long and I haven't seen all of it yet, but this is very interesting & probably the most intellectually stimulated I have seen Peterson since the Harris debates.


NeTi?

[Roshan]

NeTi?

I can certainly see it e-ssam but they don't really seem to behave like quasi-identicals. ime quasi-identicals tend to meet at a balance point, like they are using a see-saw as a fulcrum..- But.Peterson really seems to crave something from him that he is drawn to magnetically but while still standing on the other side of a pond. Contraries seems to make more sense. Perfect alone together, avoided each other in the group successfully for years....the group is hungry to know what an encounter would be like...they meet again, boom, chemistry...

idk.What do other people think?

[Roshan]

Also, my performer/lawyer TiNe creative subtype friend I thought for years was NeTi creative. And he is likewise obsessed with how we think, why we think, what thinking is, what consciousness is or isn't....It kind of seems Ti > N as a primary pursuit? I mean it is one thing to attempt to solve the meaning crisis, another to crack the thinking code...

[e-ssam]

NeTi?

I can certainly see it e-ssam but they don't really seem to behave like quasi-identicals. ime quasi-identicals tend to meet at a balance point, like they are using a see-saw as a fulcrum..- But.Peterson really seems to crave something from him that he is drawn to magnetically but while still standing on the other side of a pond. Contraries seems to make more sense. Perfect alone together, avoided each other in the group successfully for years....the group is hungry to know what an encounter would be like...they meet again, boom, chemistry...

idk.What do other people think?

Yeah, I see what you mean. There's smoothness in the interaction, and they are both pushing forward together.

[e-ssam]

he doesn't come off energetically se polr to me though?

[Roshan]

Agreed. I thought he might get away with being TiNe creative subtype but I hadn't watched til the end. And from e.g. 1:50' to 1:56' he's very obviously pulling things extemporaneously out of the air, even making a connection to his head with his fingers, and he keeps looking up into the ether for ideas.

I guess the way TeNi and NeTi quasi-identify is by see-sawing on the fulcrum of their swashbuckling theatricality and I was mistaking that for something more intense than (what I understand to be) the dynamic of quasi-identicals.

e-ssam

[Roshan]

NeTi?

I can certainly see it e-ssam but they don't really seem to behave like quasi-identicals. ime quasi-identicals tend to meet at a balance point, like they are using a see-saw as a fulcrum..- But.Peterson really seems to crave something from him that he is drawn to magnetically but while still standing on the other side of a pond. Contraries seems to make more sense. Perfect alone together, avoided each other in the group successfully for years....the group is hungry to know what an encounter would be like...they meet again, boom, chemistry...

idk.What do other people think?

Yeah, I see what you mean. There's smoothness in the interaction, and they are both pushing forward together.

Well, maybe there is and maybe there isn't smoothness in the interaction, but I was saying I would have expected a quasi-identical dynamic to be smoother. (Peterson from the get-go seems to crave something from him... ).

[Roshan]

I mean, just searching 'quasi-identicals socionics', the general googlism at the top of the page captures what I think of this dynamic:

Quasi-identical Relations
Quasi-identity is an intertype relation between two people from opposing quadras who have similar, but not identical functions, and no suggestive influence over the other.

There is 'no suggestive influence' and in my understanding quasis bond in common cause. In this case the cause is the furthering of the knowledge base and that they have some similar ideas. But Peterson seems to approach Vervaeke right from the start as though he is dying for him to have suggestive influence over him and there is a heightened drama around all this.

I feel quasis tend to be goal-oriented, strategic, and diplomatic in their interactions, especially public ones. Boundaries tend to be kept very clear. But on the other hand Vervaeke doesn't really buy in to the 'suggestibility' anyway, and like I implied, both TeNi and NeTi are huge hams so maybe that is how they are balancing the quasi see-saw.

Just amping up the electricity for fun and profit.

e-ssam

[e-ssam]

I was thinking smoothness in the sense that the conversation from the two was always accelerating, Roshan. And it seems to me towards the end too that Vervaeke was making Peterson reconsider his position on Derrida. Something clicked there for him and throughout the conversation Peterson's Ne got more active, more open and less dogmatic. It didn't seem like there was a need to look for balance point to meet at but i think maybe JP realized it from before the start. I need to refresh myself with contraries/quasi identicals again.

Also, for some reason in the beginning, Peterson remarks that the quote from Jung is probably something that he changed to the point where it stopped being a Jung quote. And I have never seen him actually make that observation about himself before.

[Roshan]

Also, for some reason in the beginning, Peterson remarks that the quote from Jung is probably something that he changed to the point where it stopped being a Jung quote. And I have never seen him actually make that observation about himself before.

Exactly. And you are calling things like this 'smooth' because they accelerate organically, e-ssam, in contrast to the effort needed in maintaining the stability of decorum. I am kind of doing the opposite. because this acceleration feels a bit like an avalanche to me, and like a plea from Peterson for a 'mutual suggestibility society'. Peterson seems to want to be somehow 'redeemed' by Vervaeke--he wants Vervaeke to help him clarify and tie together all the ideas that have been brewing in his own head--while at the same time making a Christian out of Vervaeke, so to say. However, again, Vervaeke does resist this. He keeps the boundary.

One way one might think of it is that Peterson is plunging into his 'TiNe aura' mode so he is seeking, rather passionately, to be mirrored by Vervaeke. But Vervaeke won't. He's way too Si, his approach is too rationalist and incrementalist. He knows very well this is no mirror really and he just won't be converted.